The Cinephile's Aisle
Two film haters and a microphone covering cinema classics, box office blockbusters, and everything in between!
The Cinephile's Aisle
Episode 10: "Poor Things Review"
It's "Bella in Wonderland" at The Cinephile's Aisle as Ofili and Steve return to discuss Yorgos Lanthimos (4:10) and his latest installation in his bizarre filmography, 'Poor Things' (9:00). They also look forward to a few upcoming films (35:10), including 'Dune: Part Two' and 'Madame Web'.
Find us on Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube at @CinephilesAisle.
Alright, alright. Welcome to another episode of our lovely podcast, The Center Files IO.
SPEAKER_01:I feel like this is the happiest times of my week, bro. I enjoy recording this session proper proper.
SPEAKER_00:You know you're a liar because we don't record every week.
SPEAKER_01:This is the happiest times of the weeks that we get to record.
SPEAKER_00:Fares. Fares. Um, but this has been an interesting, interesting week. Tell me about your week.
SPEAKER_01:My week. It was very, very busy. Surprisingly busy. I don't know, work-wise though. Um I've been watching um and did my Oscar watch so for listeners of this podcast that don't know me. I do this crackhead thing every year where I try to watch every single movie that was nominated for an Oscar that I haven't seen, including the short films, including the documentaries, including the animated ones. And I never succeed. I've been doing this since 2020, so this is my fifth year. I have not succeeded once. I think the most I've got in is like 60%, which is pretty good. Um and this year I'm at 36% so far with a little over two months to go. So, or two months to go rather. Shit, it's a month to go, it's in March. Anyway, um, yeah. And so I've been started, I just started that and I've been watching all these random shorts and films here that I otherwise would not see. Some good, some not so good. But yeah, that's how my week has been. What about you?
SPEAKER_00:I think my week's been really similar. It's been majorly work than just some random chaotic moments. Like yesterday I went out and I think Yeah, I went out with some of like my co-workers, and I feel like it's like there's a point where you're with your coworkers and you stop seeing them as co-workers and you start seeing them as human beings. It's very severance type talk. You get me? Like for anyone who watched severance, it's very like, you know, I don't know, like for me, I just like used to be super church and state. So, like, you know, coworkers are coworkers, you know, the vibes outside, personal life is personal life. We don't read, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You get to the office, how was your weekend? Yeah, it was just a nice night in. You could have had the craziest like 12-hour binger, you know. Yeah, but yeah, it's just a nice night in. But yeah, so like I went out with some of my coworkers, and it's just like, oh, these these people have experiences, they're living their own lives. They're not they're not horrible people.
SPEAKER_01:This is definitely very separate.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, oh yeah, they're not horrible people. And um, then when I was out, then my co-worker actually cooked. Let me let me tell you what he said.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:He went up to this girl, and I wrote it down because I found out I thought it was insane. He went up to this girl and he said, I think we'd be doing ourselves a major disservice by remaining strangers. I said, yo. Oh, word, sorry, worried, worried.
SPEAKER_01:What is this cook? I need that's that's that's top though.
SPEAKER_00:What is this cook?
SPEAKER_01:And I just it catches you off guard.
SPEAKER_00:It catches you off guard, you know.
SPEAKER_01:I've heard this one before. I need to know where you're you know, bro.
SPEAKER_00:It's not the same. What's your name? Yeah, or you look really good tonight, or you smell great. It's not it's not like the usual. Like, I feel like you're gonna get points for creativity off that load.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. I need that.
SPEAKER_00:I don't know how to say this, but let me stop, let me stop. Let me not cook anyone right now. You know, I just got I just became friends with my co-workers, so let me not cook anyone right now. But yeah, yeah, so it he cooked. He cooked. Speaking of cooking, we're going straight into the episode for today. We're focusing on Lathamus and Poor Things.
unknown:Lathy.
SPEAKER_01:I've always maintained that Yorgos is a little bit, you know, insane, technically. But I feel like he has to Okay, so I saw this movie last year, it's called Fingernails, it's an Apple TV, and it's also by a Greek guy, and it's pretty much a healthy version of the lobster, you know, very similar, you know, future, somewhat apocalyptic, but not really. But everyone needs to be in love, or you need to have a partner or something like that, and if you don't, then you know, repercussions and stuff like that. And I'm like, this just seems like what Jogos was going for, like storyline-wise or plot line-wise, except he had to be insane and make it seem like, oh, if you don't find love, you know, you're just depressed, or you're just like in some specific. He had to turn in, add in that element of turning yourself into an animal at the end of it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. Like, this was so unnecessary. I was like, no, like, you know, maybe some of us just like to be alone. You you get me? He made it, you know, if you don't find a partner, you get turned into an animal. If you split up with your partner, you have to find a partner unless you get turned into an animal. And it's just like because I I feel like The Lobster was one of those films that I watched, and it was like the process of me starting calling movies film. You get me? Yeah, it was like one of those movies that you're just like, damn, this is this is some cinema bro stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I know exactly what you mean, bro.
SPEAKER_00:I feel like everyone goes through that moment, especially if you like you really like movies. You get into that moment where you're like, Yeah, this is this is cinema, bro. This isn't it's in casual watch. It's in a fun time.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it was not. I you know, I didn't have any creepy, because I usually say something like you know, funny or witty on my letterbooks. My letterbox review for that is like I didn't have anything funny to say. I'm like, ain't no joke here. This is not a jokey matter, man. This is a movie, this is cinema, you know, yeah. But that's that's what I have to say of our yogos.
SPEAKER_00:And I think that was like one of the first times that I noticed Colin Farrell was actually like you know, when people people love to talk about how good Colin Farrell is, and for me, I never really thought he was that great until I saw the lobster and I was like, alright, my bad. My bad.
SPEAKER_01:I I I agree, yeah. Yeah, he's he's he's a somewhat like satirical, like I think most of his roles are somewhat because even the lobster is a black comedy, his roles are somewhat satirical, but when he gets going in that like you know, seriously.
SPEAKER_00:He knows his bag, that's it. He knows his bag, and he knows how to say like awkward slash funny things in a very straight and serious manner.
SPEAKER_01:Except oh you described it really well, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, like in last year's snub, Banches of Inish Aaron, uh-huh, Jesus Christ, that whole he says yeah, like he's in English, like that whole scene in the bar, absolutely insane, and he says it like so seriously, and so much of it is just deadpan, like desperation, like sadness about losing his friend.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. The Banshees was a weird film because I would read reviews and talking about how this made them cry, and some people talking about this was so hilarious. And I'm like, I didn't have any of those experiences. I just felt like I felt a deep melancholy, which is what I think Jogos was going for. But I felt that because I transposed it onto my life, you know. You even tweeted about it, and you talked about how this is like me and Chad. Like I just felt about how, you know, older, getting older, it's kind of coming of age, except they're grown already. Like you They're grown.
SPEAKER_00:I I wouldn't call it coming of age, I would say it's more of a fear of loss.
SPEAKER_01:Fear of loss, okay.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so it's more grieving. The majority of the film is more grieving, and it's like in that realm of films that you don't really think is about grief until you get to like towards the end. Yeah, like the final and you know that there's no like coming back. Like it's it's like I'd place it in that box with sound of metal.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Where like you do everything you can, and it still doesn't change the outcome that you have lost something. Interesting. That is that's the only thing is that Banches of Ensharing is very much like a period piece.
SPEAKER_01:Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, sound of metal is like a lot of these movies.
SPEAKER_01:That's a very critical analysis. I'll give you that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you, thank you. I2, I too be cooking. Okay, but back to poor things at Yogis. Yeah. Do you want to start?
SPEAKER_01:Should I start?
SPEAKER_00:Okay, I'll start. So as everyone knows, Poor Things Poor Things is a movie that came out this year. Emma Stone is the star of that film. So I'm not gonna give too much away right now about the plot. But yeah, it was directed by Yogis Lathimus, and it's a great film, and I feel like it features his signature his like that, his signature bizarre visual flair thing. Yeah, like he doesn't do movies that are like normal. It's like in that Edward Scissorhands-esque vibes, you get me. Yeah, them Alice in Wonderland kind of vibes, there's always like an air of like almost bizarrness.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, he doesn't look normal.
SPEAKER_00:Sometimes it's used as a as a humorous thing, but sometimes it's not, it's just like part of the story. So I would say like sometimes it's useful, but sometimes it's not. And he also has like those extreme wide angles, those like almost landscape-like shots.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And I think one of the first things that comes to my mind is how do you feel about like his visual style? Like in comparison to like his other things, like the lobster and the favorite.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so this actually is what I was gonna say, like my review, my it leads into my review of the film. So I've only ever seen The Lobster and the killing of Sacred Dear. So I'm not like the Yogos expert or whatever. And I only saw this, I think I said on the podcast when I started my yogos watching preparation for reporting. But this is the most experimental I've seen from Yogos, you know. Every aspect of the film, especially like you just said, the visual, but every aspect, including the color grading, you know, there's a lot of fisheye lenses here and there, and the panel shots, like there's some panoramic shots. They're like the wide landscape that he does, but some of these are more like panel, and even the scoring, like the music was like a little jabajantis, you know. And I just felt like it was a little different from you feel it seems like you're about to say something crazy. No, no, no, I'm just listening to you. Oh, yeah, it feels like so different from his prior works. The visuals in this case, like there's some, especially when they're in that bold shipping going to France, or you know, that where she met Jared Kamarkel, that boat place, and then they went to that restaurant place. That seemed like it's there were some visual effects or some VFX of CGI going on there, which I haven't seen from Yogos before, except for obviously when you know with the animals or whatever. Um, so this seemed very experimental, but it all worked, you know, and it kind of adds into the bizarreness of the story. Like the story is very bizarre, which is you know, yogos is no stranger to a bizarre story, but all of that just added to bring the story to life. Like you wouldn't, I'm trying to imagine this being a regular, you know, shut-up film, 70mm, or whatever, regular film with like an animal with the head of a pig and the body of a chicken, like it just would look it wouldn't hit as much as it does with the bizarre color gradient.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I completely understand what you mean. It takes it into like this like Alice in Wonderland-esque vibes where you're kind of expecting weird stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:But did you know it's based off a book?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I didn't know that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so that's like part of it. It's a bit of a book like written in I think 1992 by uh Alice Dear Gray, and it's like a 19th century world thing. So this is all intentional. Interesting. So he had source material for this, which you know how I feel about like you know, if you have source material, like sometimes you know it's a little easier, it's a little easier, you know. Dunes coming out very soon.
SPEAKER_01:Dunes coming out very soon. We've had this topic about Denny for a minute, but if everyone can adapt something from print to the big screen, then everyone will be doing it. It's not easy, bro. Because you're working with another person's vision.
SPEAKER_00:No problem. There's no problem.
SPEAKER_01:There's a reason why there's separate awards for them because it's almost you're creating a story. Source material.
SPEAKER_00:Adapting a story, McSteve. That's what the word is called. It's called adapting. You're adapting.
SPEAKER_01:Adapting from another person's vision. You're creating something, it's it's the same thing as original. This is just another person's vision that you bring into life with your own.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, McSteve. However, you feel. I'm a rapper.
SPEAKER_01:Whatever makes you happy. Oh, but yeah, I didn't know it was, it was, it was, it was it was from a book. That makes sense.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's it's based off a book, and you can kind of I feel like that was one of the first things I Googled as soon as I left the cinema. I think it was just based off of a book. Like, because it really feels like it's it it feels like it's a book. It doesn't feel like a movie. You knew you know what I mean? There's certain movies that you can just like the way the story unfolds, you can just kind of feel like this is this is this is a book.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Like you can almost feel the dog ear is I think the reason why I agree with that is because the acts and the scenes are so divided, you know, like when we go from chapter to chapter in her story, in Emma's story. Um it's so well divided, you know, the different cities and the different sets, like different stages. I guess I'm trying to say it feels like a play, also, like like, you know, how each chapter, it's not like a transitioning.
SPEAKER_00:I mean it is transitioned, but yeah, I I I can see how that I think it transitions because of the nature of the film.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, that's okay, that's the main characters of the film are Emma Stone playing Bella Baxter. Again, this is something about the allotrating names, you know. This is something about the allotracing names, like it cooks, it cooks, but yeah, Bella Baxter, and she's portraying a woman with the mind of an infant, you know, exploring her new world. Then Willem Defoe plays Dr. Goodwin Baxter, Protective, and you know, confining guardian. It's interesting because there are times where like you're like, huh, I don't think I'd have this conversation and this do you get what I mean?
SPEAKER_01:What do you mean?
SPEAKER_00:Like just the way that their relationship is set up, okay. And like the openness in the conversation.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. But that's because you know, I think that's because I think that was intentional because she calls him God for most I don't even remember her call calling him what's his name, Godwin or Godson? Godwin his name is Godwin. Godwin, yeah. I don't remember her calling him Godwin. She calls him God, which is obviously the short form of Godwin, but I don't know if it's that can't like No, that's what I'm saying. That's intentional because obviously you're hearing God, you're just hearing her call him God, and so it's like that's her God, like that's her maker, because she was created, you know. And when you talk to God, when you pray, those are like that's how you would talk to you wouldn't like like you would talk to your God in a way in a in a conversation. If you were to have a conversation with Jesus right now, it would be like a conversation way, it wouldn't be I don't think necessarily think would be father-son way, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00:So that's uh that's how I felt that was no, I get that, especially because I think it adds another layer to the film and like a Frankenstein-esque vibe. Okay, you know what I mean? Frankenstein's monster and everything, it adds just like that other layer to it. But the um I think the last like really outstanding performance in the film was Mark Ruffalo playing Duncan Wetterburn.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And like his just like the way he introduces Bella to like love and philosophy is like very interesting. It's very fun. I feel like there's a lot like as just as a viewer that you can take away from that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and the impact that Bella also has in him, that's another layer as well, you know. Like, okay, he introduces her to a lot of things, but then he's very integral, he's very key in her growth or in her career age. And then conversely, after she has achieved womanhood, if you can call it that, yeah, the tables, the tides are turned and the tables are flipped, and we we start to see it as she is having she's leading this man to have a very strong severe mental breakdown. Basically, it changes the course of his life. Um, he's never met anyone like her. He says that, he displays that, and the story shows that and you know, he goes to jail, he goes broke, he's stranded, and just all of this changes in his life by virtue of Fella's impact. So I th I think you know there's multiple layers there. He's a very key character, he's very interesting as well. And that character could not have been portrayed by many people, so I think I have to beat Mark Rocalo, my flower or his flower for that role. And speaking of going off of that, I'm going to even extend that to the rest of the cast. Like, again, like I said, like this is very or it feels very experimental from your goals, but it would not have worked, and I stand by that, it would not have worked if like the cast did not bring his vision to life. There is a lot of fantastic acting in here. You know, the general critic body is not saying this is carried by acting because there's a lot of it's a technical masterpiece, the technical marvel, but it's also brought to like it's all brought to life by fantastic acting. Rami, who I've only seen in Rami, so which is you haven't seen oh yeah, Rami Malik is pretty he does a great performance. I've only seen him in in in the Hulu show Rami, so this is surprisingly good from him, like really, really surprisingly good. Willem Duffel, obviously, that's not no surprise there. He's amazing in this. Marco Fallo. And when they all go through the different, especially Rami and Mark, when they go through the different acts, like they fit right in with the changing, because the Bella is ever changing, she's growing, right? And so the film changes with Bella, you know, even color color greeting-wise, it starts off black and white, eventually it's like full HD color, or starts off with um pretty infant-like dressing until we transition into like full-on gowns and full-on dresses and flowy dresses. And Mark and Rami both change with the effort like transitioning tone of the film, which is too much Bella's growth. Yeah, I just think there Mark is a chameleon in this. He bounces back off Bella and Willet Man, he just absorbs and feeds back, and he doesn't it doesn't feel like anyone's skipping a beat, you know. So I think the acting is tremendous, so it passes the mark, especially in Bella, obviously.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I definitely hear what you're saying because that was one of the next things I was gonna talk, like the visual style and how that how that adds to the film, because that transition from like black and white to vibrant colours, yeah, for me it really symbolized like Bella's liberation.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Because I felt like one of the major themes of the film was like that whole Victorian femininity and the infantilization of women, and now we're advocating for self-discovery and empowerment aspect of things.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I hear it, it sounds a little bit to me like you're calling this a feminist masterpiece. Is that what you're saying?
SPEAKER_00:See, we talked about this last episode. Yes, poor things is a feminist masterpiece. It's like a great coming of age film from a very different perspective.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I agree. I'll just teas it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. It's a great female liberation film.
SPEAKER_01:It's because it's interesting because you know, if you're if you're just watching it as if you're just taking it in, right? First of all, a lot of the ethics are going to really like scare you, like, okay, uh let's just be frank. Yeah, I mean, I don't want to spoil it, but uh it's a baby, you know, like technically, you know, we're introducing her to sex and all of that, but it's like the mind of a child, you know. So it's like, has she achieved the age of content, you know? Um, or when where she's just discovering she's going through puberty, if you'll call it that, and she's just discovering masturbation and you know, self-gratification, and this man is sneaking up to her room and then he's just touching her, like you know, without asking, without saying. He just touches her right down there, and she realizes she likes that. It's like, okay, what is what is going on right here?
SPEAKER_00:Like she did she I think that I think, yeah, that's part of some of the common critiques about it. So there are great aspects, but I think again, a lot of these aspects were they were keen her becoming who she currently, like who she ends up being at the end of the film. Yeah. They weren't innately traumatic, but they were they helped in development, and they were what I would call grey. And I feel like that's also part of adulting, because that's how like the film is really about it's there are there are gray areas in your becoming. Like as an adult, there are there will be grey areas that you will experience and you will not really know how to process. And maybe you're lucky, there are things that you can like overstep, they just contribute to your growth positively, but other times, you know, it might be a bit worse. Yeah, but I'm happy on for her it was like on the beneficial side, but it definitely reminded me of like like I mentioned earlier, like Edward Scissor Hands and like Frankenstein, like especially for like Edward Scissors Hands, like you know, it's like oh like navigating through the human world, and again, like I said, feeds into that whole like becoming an adult thing, like how you have to navigate all those things and navigate like real life. And it just I feel like it's it's just so key and it's such an interesting film, it's like it's such an interesting concept.
SPEAKER_01:It is, it is and it's not a you know, it makes sense that it's it's an adaptation of a book. It's not a story that I've never seen any let me just say that I've never seen anything like this.
SPEAKER_00:It's really Yeah, that's another thing that I was saying because I feel like some of what you're discussing, or some of what you just talked about, would be more palpable in a book than actually seeing it happen. Yeah, yeah. Like you can read about it, but like when you see him going up and all of that, you're like, ah god. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you're like it brings it visualizes the ethics of it all because you know, if I guess when when you read about a grown person with the brain of a child, you're not necessarily thinking that in the literal, in a very literal saying, you're kind of thinking of it as a metaphor, like oh, an image.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you're thinking about just delayed learning paths.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, but this time around, you're actually seeing visually that it's a child, you know. Yes, it proper like thinks like a child, talks like a child, walks like a child, um, but in the body of a woman. So it just adds it it compounds the not immoral. I don't want to call it immoral, but like you just think of the ethics of it and the morality of it, and it it's more in your face. Um, and I think that's another thing. I I didn't I didn't say this, but this is also yogurt playing more with the ideas of love, sex, gender, intimacy, shame.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think definitely he developed in this film more than we've seen in previous films.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Where it's like in previous films, it's almost like implied, it's not really talked about as much. But I think again, the source content of this makes him have to like show these and direct these in a way that they would be beneficial. And I don't know if Rami helped with this because he he does direct also, which is like interesting. Okay, yeah, yeah. So Rami, I yeah, Rami also directs, so like that's interesting. And I think also like Emma Stones, some of her previous roles kind of like led up or like fed into this, if you get what I mean. Uh-huh.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:And I don't know, it it just it fits. It like it fits.
SPEAKER_01:It's perfect casting too. Just like you said, you know, because of her previous roles. Set her up for this.
SPEAKER_00:And I think again, like going back to the whole garden creator theme that we talked about earlier, there's that like that whole point where she starts like rebelling. It just made me like immediately in my head, ah, yeah, there's a prodigal son kind of vibes. Yeah, it's prodigal son vibes. I don't need this. Yeah, it's funny.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And you know, more moving on to some of the more technical aspects. I guess it's nominated for I don't have the nominees in front of me. It's nominated for a bunch of technical roles, but I think it's nominated for so much. So yeah, but I think that the where it best excels, so not best, because I can't even say where it best excels, probably directing, but one of the really key areas are the makeup and hairstyling and the costume design. Um because those are again paramount to the story. The makeup, because we need to see the deformities, you know, it helps us visualize just what uh horrors God went through as a child. Because he talks about it, he talks about what his dad did to him, like the surgeries or whatever. But seeing you know, his deformed face and his deformed body, it helps us it helps put it into perspective what kind of childhood he really had and uh what would lead a man to make to perform these kind of surgeries, you know. Exactly. And then because the makeup um, because Bella is growing, the makeup changes with that, the hairstyling changes with her growth to signify that. And at the end, she's a full-blown woman mentally and physically, and that changes with her hair. Same thing with the costume design, right? Everything is so key, man. Every dress fits perfectly in her. Like in the beginning, she's wearing like the PJs, or what I would call like olden.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, the style develops, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, her style develops, and like you know, eventually she goes from dress to dress to dress, and in the end, she's wearing that really green, really flowy dress, and it signifies her c is now a lady, she's a lady of the house, you know. Um, but it fits every it fits her body like a glove, but it also fits the scene like a glove. I think that's an easy winner this year. I sat down the last episode, I'm reiterating that Barbie cannot win uh costume design over it. Um but yeah, Emma Stone, she's the bedrock of the film. It doesn't work without her. It's obviously it really doesn't. It really doesn't work without her, and boy, does it work, you know? She puts in the shift and a half um masterful, masterful acting. We're really seeing like a master work here with her, and there's different men that she has interactions and relationships with, and she just shines through it all. Um the Jarod Kamico cameo. Let me just say that for a little bit. I I thought it was very I didn't want to be I didn't want to make it a race thing, but I thought it was very awful to dying.
SPEAKER_00:I thought you didn't like I was gonna say that you bring it up. It's interesting because I feel like you don't like Jared Kamiko.
SPEAKER_01:I don't like him, yeah. I don't like him. I don't like anything that he's in. I don't like watching him actually. I will I've definitely like passed on films that I was going to see just because he was in it. Um, but I'm I'm not that much a hater that wouldn't recognize when someone does a good job. So initially I thought I thought it was very off ethical hating. I thought it was very awful to him, but he seemed like the most learned man in terms of like liberal, like liberal art. He seemed very learned, and that was also key to Bella's development. Like, you know, the breakdown she had when she realized the world isn't fair, and that was courtesy of Jared K. Michael. And there's a line that he said that stuff with me, and I also wrote it down. He said, You can't change the world, we are fucked species, know it. Don't accept the lie of socialism or capitalism. Hope is smashable, realism is not. Hope is smashable, realism is not, and that just that's like that's fella's, you know, I want to say it's a defining moment because after that, like everything leading up to that, she's just going along with the man or with whatever is going on, and then after that, you know, she's not placing her hopes in any dead, in any rich man, she's not placing her hopes in anyone to save her or save the world. She tries to help those poor people and it doesn't work, and she has to become a realist after that. And you know, she goes on to France to start prostituting um and making money off of that. But after that, you can just see her. Taking her own life into her own hand, and she's not, you know, going to be reliant on some guy after that. So, yeah, hats off to Jared.
SPEAKER_00:Hats off to Jared Carmichael in that role. Especially you turn Steve from a hater to a listener.
SPEAKER_01:So I'm still a hater, man. Don't get into people like that, man.
SPEAKER_00:At least for that little moment, man, you turn from a hater to a listener. But I think another interesting thing is like going back, pivoting through like coming of age theme through like a unique protagonist. First thing that came to my mind was shape of the the shape of water.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:The 2020 uh 2017 uh Gilamo del Toro.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, bro.
SPEAKER_00:Uh I know you love Del Toro, I know you love Guillermo. Yeah. But it just in my head, I'm just like, how do you feel about I guess like the comparisons and how like my mind is linking those two films? Because the truth is like they are very unconventional characters who are like have like this and they're just like this humanization of the other. And they explore like love and other themes.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, um, so compassion, I haven't seen Shape of Water.
SPEAKER_00:Really? Oh, yeah, okay, yeah. I remember that. My bad, my bad for setting you up.
SPEAKER_01:No, you're good, you're good. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I hate watched, bro. I heard the scene, like there's a sex scene in it, and I'm like, how?
SPEAKER_01:I thought that's what that's the one thing that I know about it, even. I don't know. Um, isn't that a good one?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, there's like an iffy sex scene in it, and I was like, pause.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, the cover, all right. Even it's like them they're hugging, like you're talking, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:They're like hugging in this tank or something, and I'm just like, what's what's going on? What's going on? But I feel like this and Pan's Labyrinth, Del Toro would have been the guy if you wanted this specific movie. Do you get what I mean? Yeah if you wanted this coming of age, unique character vibes, and you want some bizarrness, some weirdness thrown around that contributes to the story. I think the like he just has like so much more experience with that historical reality, blending it with like those fantasy elements that just make like the storytelling like deeper.
SPEAKER_01:So that's what I was going to say. I think the the issue is Del Toro's bizarreness is more whimsical, more fantasy.
SPEAKER_00:Uh okay.
SPEAKER_01:This well, like we really we're we're connecting uh or we're able to have this serious conversation with this kids. It feels real, like it feels real almost, you know. It feels very not almost, it feels real. It feels like this is a real story that could happen. Obviously, we know it's not you know possible, it's not real, but it's uh it's believable when depicted on screen, you know, with the different dresses and the user real places and real elements, you know. Um that's just the key distinction. I can see I can see the outside we're doing this, it's just going to be a little bit more uh whimsical about fantastic. But yeah, especially coming of age, that's his that's his niche, that's his domain. He gets that um really well. Shout out again, shout out Yogos. Um not many directors can have this in their bag and he delivers.
SPEAKER_00:I definitely think like his develop his I don't okay, so I like I really like his evolution as a filmmaker. Yeah. And like how he's like he keeps tackling like newer, more niche things.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And it's like kudos to him. Kudos to him.
SPEAKER_01:I agree.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And I feel like this is not to be that guy, but I feel like this is one of those one of those like movies that you could definitely go to go to college, you're in like a gender studies class or you're in an English class, and they could assign you go watch poor things, and there's like, oh, like you get an exam, is like how does this film reflect the cultural or societal concerns or cultural trends, blah blah blah. You get what I mean? But like I think it it's it strikes the balance of being like a very academic movie where you can have that kind of discussion for and also being like a like a good vibe. Like this is a good, fun, comfy movie.
SPEAKER_01:And it's also again like a technical marvel. You can watch this in a film, in a film class, in a regular film class, you know, the way Citizen Kane gets assigned to fresh air film, film major. You could also study this because again, you know, the scoring, very haphazard, very Japanese, but there's a lot to learn from the fisheye lenses, which I haven't seen from yogurt ever. Well, I've only seen two films. Um but again, it doesn't feel out of place. That's the thing, that's why I keep saying the color grading doesn't feel out of place. The panel shots, the wide shots, the CGI, nothing feels out of place.
SPEAKER_00:Nothing feels out of place.
SPEAKER_01:It's a lot that you can learn from, like you just said, like you know, gender studies and you know, learning about womanhood or whatever, but also learning about film and filmmaking.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so now my next question is to pivot away from yogurt's. Will you be watching Madam Webb? I was not expecting that. I know you're a Sydney Sweeney fan.
SPEAKER_01:I was not expecting that.
SPEAKER_00:I know you're a Sydney Sweeney fan. Would you be watching Madam Webb, my guy? Tell me.
SPEAKER_01:Obviously, so I don't can't I could not tell you the last time I did not see a Marvel movie. I genuinely goes back to I did a list one time. I haven't I've seen everything Marvel's put on theaters since like 2000 and I don't know, nine, ten.
SPEAKER_00:I could have seen I thought Madame Webb was like Sony.
SPEAKER_01:It's Sony Marvel.
SPEAKER_00:It's Sony Marvel.
SPEAKER_01:Oh it's Sony Marvel. And I don't, you know, I defended Morbius, you know, that's Sony Marvel. I defended Morbius till whatever. Yeah, and you know, I lost that battle ridiculously. So I need to see this one and that. Best believe I'll be defending them. I have to live with, you know, for the rest of my days. But I'll be seeing that, I'll be seeing that. I'm excited, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Because that's fair.
SPEAKER_01:I don't think it's as bad as people are making it to be, but I have to see to decide.
SPEAKER_00:Oh my god, the trailer looks horrendous.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, trailer was terrible. But then the trailer for Morbius was also horrible, and it wasn't that bad, you know?
SPEAKER_00:No, it was a bad movie. Morbius is a horrible movie, though. I think I saw it for free, and I still felt like I wasted my money. Like I wasted the gas to go there.
SPEAKER_01:Morbius, I'll fight for you. I'll defend you till till forever.
SPEAKER_00:I'm fucking dying. But Dune part two comes out February 25th. That is the highlight. I wish they I wish it came out on Valentine's Day so we could, you know, we could really see what's going on. Let's see. Does love win?
SPEAKER_01:So Dune, obviously, you know that I've been looking forward to that. It's my it's been my most anticipated film since I saw part one. Um I saw so I went back to see it in IMAX Dune part one and included the sneak peek of part two. And ever since then, you know, they've had a bunch of press, and at each press, they play like a new snippet. And I've been deciding if I should follow those snippets or just avoid them. So I watch, I've been watching all the snippets. Basically, how do I put this? Nolan saw it.
SPEAKER_00:Nolan saw the preview and said this is And yeah, he said it's it's the it's this generation's the Empire Strikes Back.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And then a bunch of other crit a bunch of other critics have also seen it, you know, because they had viewings, and they said it's Venus Um The Dark Knight, which was the sequel to Batman Begin. So is it Batman begins? Yeah, Batman began. Um so I'm just like, okay, so since these are the two uh you know, touted, heavily touted, whatever sequels of our generation, and it seems like no one else, no one has anything else to compare it to. That's what everyone's comparing it to. But for me, I don't see it as the sequel because I know there's a third part coming out, and I know June Maziah is going to be the culmination of this magical story. Dune part two is necessary, it's um we're getting to actually see Paul as you know, with the Fremen, with the Arachis, we're getting to see him rise, he's going to take on the Emperor, and he's just it's the first culmination of the coming of age, but I'm not comparing it to any of these other sequels or you know, part twos or whatever, because I think it's a lot bigger. I think there's a chance for more. He's working with the best composers, and simmer, he's working with the best um cinematographers, Greg Fazer. He's working with the very stellar ensemble cast. Um, so for me it's just it eclipses everything. I think it's going to be you know, after Dune Part 2 has come out and gone, I think everyone is going to start referring to what they previously referred to as the Dark Knight, the Empire Strike as the Dune Port 2. Very hopeful. I have my tickets already, I'm seeing it twice already. I have two tickets already, so I'm seeing it February 25th and March 1st, and yeah, we'll be talking about it. Yeah, I'm 100%.
SPEAKER_00:I feel like I'm going to watch Dune, not because I love Dune and I'm looking forward to Dune, but more so it just feels like it's it's something you have to do. So I'm not really excited for it, but it just kind of feels like I know that on this podcast we're gonna have to talk about it, and I say have to because I am dreading it, because you've been talking about Dune nonstop since since I've known you, honestly. It's like damn bro, the there's other things out there.
SPEAKER_01:That's fine, but that's that's that leads me to my question. So you had tweeted that Dune is going to try to market as the event of the year, but it's not going to work because I guess people have to want to see it as opposed to it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's it has to be an organic thing. Do you get what I mean? The problem is that like for example, the reasons why we saw record breaking, I think the record breaking numbers for let's go pretty far back, Black Panther. Okay. People wanted to see black superhero, main character, massive black cast, yeah, black director, crazy black everything, you know, music, everything. Yeah, then let's come up more recent. I'm skipping a lot of fucking years now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But come up more recent to like the most recent, like biggest blockbuster, which is for movies that these these movies are not Marvel movies, these are not superhero movies, which is like a shocking when you know we're getting cinema back, yeah, or bringing real cinema back. But basically, Barbie and Oppenheimer, yeah, which honestly, on everything, these movies, based on length and content of these movies, typically would not be billion dollar movies. They would not normally be billion dollar movies, but they were organically like they organically became like the movies of the year. I think honestly, Oppenheimer even what was their marketing budget? It felt like ten dollars on a dream.
SPEAKER_01:It generally felt like it was it was hundred. He got a hundred.
SPEAKER_00:Bro, it was it was they barely did anything for marketing. Yeah, Barbie did a great marketing. Then then you have to remember that like I think right before, like at one point, you know, the strike hit. So they couldn't really even market anywhere.
SPEAKER_01:They couldn't do press, like the cast had a good thing. They couldn't do no press runs.
SPEAKER_00:Like, I feel like they went from like their only press run or major press thing straight to the like straight to the process.
SPEAKER_01:Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So that's what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_00:Like, I feel like Dune is gonna push this out as you know the film of the year, the film that we have to get to, blah blah blah. But the problem is the nature of the film, Dune, just doesn't appeal to as many people. Do we want to do quite honestly? And I feel like that's where it's gonna fall short.
SPEAKER_01:Do we want to do numbers?
SPEAKER_00:What do you say?
SPEAKER_01:Do we wanna guess numbers?
SPEAKER_00:I don't want to throw out numbers. I genuinely don't want to throw us numbers. But I feel like it's just a movie that's it's gonna be a great movie. The cast is great. I understand why they pushed it back because the cast is phenomenal. They needed the cast to do the press runs again. Like that's the major thing that they pushed it back for because they needed the cast to do the press run so that they can continue to market it as the event of the year.
SPEAKER_01:But the cast has been succeeding in doing such a successful press run, and they have we have this unfounded chemistry between Florence Pugh and Zendaya and Austin Butler and Timothy Chalamet, which we didn't know before. That's bound to spur more people. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:I'm gonna be honest with you. I think for me, I see a lot of the chemistry between Salome and Zendaya, no one else. No one else.
SPEAKER_01:No, yeah, no, that's that's definitely something with Florence and Zendaya, especially. Austin Buckler is a weirdo in the in the sense that he's very since that Elvis whole thing has just become very strict, like serious, and you know, so it doesn't show up, it doesn't come up naturally.
SPEAKER_00:I'm not gonna lie to you. I do I feel like people are hating him too much for the Elvis thing.
SPEAKER_01:I agree too. I like him enough.
SPEAKER_00:That stays with you. Like people shouldn't like like it's two years of like any kind of work experience, it would stay with you. Yeah, like don't do that. Plus, he also grew up during that time.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:Like he became older. Like it's two years, man. Like he's going to become a different person, just in general.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So I just feel like a lot of people.
SPEAKER_01:He also got nominated for an Oscar for that role. It wasn't, it really, really was not that bad. Like, I don't know. The film itself wasn't great. The film itself was okay at best, you know. Yeah, it was okay. The performance as Elvis was really good.
SPEAKER_00:Like, you know, it was crazy.
SPEAKER_01:I just I just feel like the hate has been unwarranted, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think another thing is that kind of crazy to talk about, but Jacob Lordy was a better Elvis.
SPEAKER_01:I think we're getting to the end of this because I cannot even agree with that.
SPEAKER_00:Really?
SPEAKER_01:I cannot agree with that.
SPEAKER_00:Man, Jacob Alordi was a better Elvis. There's nothing you can tell me. But before we cap off, I don't know if you've noticed that Apple TV funded a new movie called Argyle.
SPEAKER_01:200.
SPEAKER_00:200. It's like making, I think it made like 6.5. I saw that. 6.5.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, not 6.5. Like six, yeah, 6.5 million in opening day. This is a regular weekend, nothing crazy happened.
SPEAKER_01:So the thing is, the reason why I don't even, you know, Apple. Obviously, we know that Apple has is a whatever three trillion dollar company, blah blah blah. They're this is an investment. Everything that's been happening from the past, bro, they pay, they pay what's it called? Um, Jennifer Aniston and um Witherspoon two million per episode. Yeah, number of people that watch the morning show is genuinely less than 100 worldwide, globally. Nobody watches that show, you know what I mean? And they pay like they're if they're they're pumping money into these. I don't know how much they paid Killers of Harmon to get that. They're the distribute distributor for that. I cannot even imagine, but I know it's a lot of money, you know. So they're throwing this money and it's an investment. They also got the distributing rights for Napoleon. So it's they're just trying to build their catalogue, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Eventually, I think they're absolutely trying to build their catalogue. And everything just gets. I think the thing with Argyle is that again you know, it's Argyle is kind of an iffy thing because apparently the book the movie rights were sold before the movie came out. I'm sorry, before the book came out.
SPEAKER_01:Interesting.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so before they published the book, you get what I mean? So, and like the book kind of the movie kind of hinges on this, like, it's not like a who-done it, but it's kind of like a who's who's who's the spot.
SPEAKER_01:Who's agent argyll or whatever?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, who's agent argyle? And and like I think like months earlier than that discussing film Twitter. And it's so funny because for me now, like already I could kind of tell like the movie was not like I love I love myself a good spy film. I love it, but I have personal beef with Matthew Vaughan because I love Kingsman for him to just tank Kingsman and blow it up to go do other things. I'm like, what's going on, my guy? That first movie was meant to set up as a new age bond.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. That's really what oh my god, that's what it was meant to be.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. 2015 or 2016, when did that come out? Maybe 2013, honestly. That was meant to be the new age bond. Yeah. Super Gen Z, very British, fun time, attractive characters. It was it was a great time. You know, they even threw in some blacks. Give us Samuel Jackson there. Great, it's a great time. Yeah. But now we go Argyle, and I'm just like, what what are we doing? Like, I've I just don't have any desire to see it because like I saw some of the trailers, and I'm just like, why does this look so choppy? You get me? It doesn't feel like it's a good movie.
SPEAKER_01:Eventually I'm going to just see it just for the sake of it. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:When it comes on streaming though, I already paid for Apple TV. I don't need to go in cinema.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Anyway, um, I have had a great time this episode. This has been a good idea. If I haven't seen Poor Things, my apologies, but it's been out for a while now. I I think you should have seen it.
SPEAKER_00:You should go see Poor Things before it you know goes out. If you want, you can do your double feature and pick up our garage give them some money. Give them some money. They need it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Alright guys. This has been a great episode of the TCA. You know, we'd love to be here with you guys. Episode's gonna be out soon. Hope you guys have a great day.
SPEAKER_01:Talk to you next time.
SPEAKER_00:See you next time.
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