The Cinephile's Aisle
Two film haters and a microphone covering cinema classics, box office blockbusters, and everything in between!
The Cinephile's Aisle
Episode 18: "CONCLAVE" feat. Ayisha and Misgana
Dive into our latest episode as we unpack Conclave, exploring its twists and the deeper philosophy around the interplay of certainty, doubt, and faith. This was an incredibly engaging discussion, capped off with our takes on potential Best Picture winners—ranging from mainstream favorites to some hipster niche picks. While Steve couldn’t join us this time, we were thrilled to have Misgana back for her second episode and a special guest appearance by Ayisha from the Popcorn for Dinner podcast. Don’t forget to check out Popcorn for Dinner on Twitter (@popcorn_dinner) and Spotify
Find us on Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube at @CinephilesAisle.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of the TCA, The Cinephiles Io. Joined again with your favorite Smiths Ghana, and we have a new guest on, Aisha from Popcorn for Dinner.
SPEAKER_00:Hi.
SPEAKER_01:Hello. Excited to speak to you guys. But a very, very, very cool movie.
Ofili:So very excited to have all you here. Unfortunately, we can't have Steve on this episode. Steve? He's on vacation right now. Oh, is that what he's doing? I thought he was sick. Oh no, you were sick. I was sick. Then Steve is now on vacation. Interestingly, after Thanksgiving, he is then going on vacation.
SPEAKER_01:Wow. Okay, that's that's actually quite, I think that's quite unimpressive by Steve, you know, because I thought, okay, it was a legitimate reason, but he's just skiving off doing this. Clearly running away from my appointment being here.
Ofili:I think he just didn't have time to watch Conclave as well.
SPEAKER_01:So obviously, uh, that's a really good second option.
Ofili:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ofili:He I think he watched The Real Pain, and we might have an episode coming out for that one. Oh, very nice. We're thinking, we're thinking. But yeah, Miss Ghana, Aisha, how have you guys been?
SPEAKER_01:Do Miss Ghana, do you want to go first? Oh, okay. I've been good. I've been good. I watched three films this week, this weekend, not even this week. Oh, okay. Yeah, I watched Conclave on Friday, which was also a screen talk with the director, Edward Berger, which was very nice. And then on Saturday, I watched Wicked, and then on today I watched Citizen Kane. So I feel like I've watched at least. I know, I know, I know. I've watched I've watched like probably like eight hours of cinema this weekend, or maybe about yeah, about eight, seven point five hours of cinema.
Ofili:Yeah. The lineup you chose is just kind of stressful in the time. Yeah, really. Like in the level of like cinematic content, it is actually all stressful.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I think it was when I was on System Kane at like 12:30 p.m. today on a Sunday morning, and I was waking up to go watch System Kane at like 10, trying to get out of the house. I was thinking to myself, why do I choose this existence? What is going on? Like, how did I get here? And I was halfway through watching, I was like, this movie is really good, but I'm really tired. So yeah, that's that's my weekend. Miss Ghana, what about you?
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yo, I I feel like I watch one movie a day, so it's very much a routine for me at this point. I watched Senseless a couple of years ago. Yeah, I think I've watched it before, but like I couldn't remember, so I watched it again. That's nice, and then I watched Conclave again.
SPEAKER_01:Because it's out on VOD, you know? Right now.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And then I I watched Meet the Walkers today.
SPEAKER_00:Oh. Okay. It's a really good one. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:I I think I'm going back to like good, good movies, how I would describe it. And then I watched Doolittle.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:That's such a mix. That's a really pretty weird mix of verbs.
Ofili:Yeah, there's no like that.
SPEAKER_02:I know. It's it's like childhood.
Ofili:It's the vibes, I get you. I think I also have been on a nostalgia binge. Really just went back into like Owen Wilson favorites from like childhood. So that's Midnight in Paris. Yes. Midnight in Paris is amazing. I feel like it.
SPEAKER_01:I is that Richard Linkleter?
Ofili:I think so. I think it might be Link Later for Midnight in Paris.
SPEAKER_01:I think it is.
Ofili:But I also watched She's Funny That Way.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
Ofili:And I don't watch that. I I told you about that. I told you you need to watch that.
SPEAKER_00:And I feel like that's your vibe, Miss Ghana. I feel like you like it.
Ofili:Exactly. Exactly. And yeah. Okay, so I did stray. I also went on like a little bit Ben Stella because I was at the gym for an insane amount of time, and they had Dodgeball on screen, and I was watching it.
SPEAKER_01:They had Dodgeball on your gym screen.
Ofili:Okay, so I ran to my regular gym. I do want to say I went to a random planet fitness.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so you're you're just embarrassed of this planet fitness. You can't you can't claim it. You can't claim it as your gym.
Ofili:Not my gym. Because it was playing dodgeball, which is gauche. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Had a fun time. Yeah. Yeah. So that was that was my Did it play the whole duration of Dodge Ball? It did.
SPEAKER_02:Was it like on a like people channel?
Ofili:It was. It was on cable and it was on three TVs, and I was like, wow.
SPEAKER_01:Clearly, we need to up our gyms in the UK. We don't have any gyms that play films. Or am I just not going to the right gyms? I mean, you can play films on your uh on your machine, but not like, you know, not on screens that are popular.
Ofili:I feel like America has a screen problem though.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, you think so? I mean, most likely, but I didn't I didn't I didn't think it extended to your gyms.
SPEAKER_03:Oh no, yeah, that's that's quite that's quite extreme to me.
SPEAKER_01:Who's watching the films? Are you watching a film while you're working? Anyway, let's not even get into it. I don't feel like I have distraction to it.
Ofili:No, I think mainly it's also because like they're aligned in front of like treadmills and ellipticals. So we're kind of like distracting.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, okay. Okay, so like so like do they play the sound of the movie aloud, or are you like able to like put headphones on and connect?
Ofili:No, no.
SPEAKER_01:So it's a it's a silent film.
Ofili:No, it says loud.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, it's loud. So they're playing dodgeball. Like everyone is hearing dodgeball.
Ofili:Everyone, I am I am one of ten people watching Dodgeball.
SPEAKER_01:Wait, but what about the music, the gym music? You know those weird gym music team as they play. They don't play that in that gym.
Ofili:Well, in in planet the planet fitness I went to, they didn't play gym music. It was dodgeball on some screens, and it was American football, so I think there was a Vikings game. Yeah. On some other screens.
SPEAKER_01:This is so bizarre. Honestly, yeah. I mean, I find the gym music quite bizarre, but this is like quite funny. That's a nice story. I have so many questions. I have so many more questions about this. No, no, I'm not sure. So random. We can definitely be direct. Do you think there was some sort of like someone just taking over and just doing what they want? Or is this like a routine in the like is this like a I just wonder if like someone just decided that they like fuck everyone, I'm gonna play dodgeball on the screens.
Ofili:I think. I don't know. I think so. I think so.
SPEAKER_01:Because it's random, it's entirely random. Why would you anyway?
Ofili:Okay, that's a really good story. I love the curiosity when other people are like single in America win.
SPEAKER_01:No, you guys are so strange.
Ofili:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:You guys are so strange. Yeah. But I like I like it though. It's a nice strange. It's like that friend that like always has something going on in her life. So every time you see her, you're just you know you're about to know that maybe she's like cheated on her boyfriend with some random Italian 60-year-old or something. And you're just ready to hear the ghost. That's how I feel about Americans. It's like I just know I'm gonna hear something nice when I speak to them. That's fun.
Ofili:I don't know about nice, but I'll say entertaining.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, entertaining. There's something entertaining going on. Maybe not nice, maybe not nice, actually. But the political landscape now, maybe not nice. It's okay. We're struggling as well, yeah. Okay.
Ofili:Okay. We're gonna jump straight into the the topic of today. We're going to talk about Conclave Edward Berger, Ralph Finds. Uh just came out. Well, actually, I think this came out in October. For you guys. For us, it came out in October. I'm so sorry.
SPEAKER_01:Came on Friday for us, 29th of November.
SPEAKER_02:Oh wow.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I know. We don't get anything. Okay, this is I okay.
SPEAKER_02:Wait, no, no, no. That's not true. That's not true. You guys have a Christmas movie in theaters right now. A black Christmas movie. I forgot what it's called. I saw on TikTok or something. That's only for the UK. And I was like, you guys.
SPEAKER_01:Well, Miss Vernard, that that never, that literally, that literally never happens. I'm real. That never that never happens. It never happens.
Ofili:Yeah, she's I think Aisha's completely right because I think half of our the listeners couldn't listen to We Live in Time because it's not because we have a big population that's in England. And it doesn't release in England until like January, I believe.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so I started sending A24 these really disturbing emails, and I've been emailing them loads. I tweet at them loads to kind of like to get them to this disparity. I need it gone. Like I need us to get movies when you guys get it. And I'm really, really and Bankley said to me, like, the fact that I think that I will be the one to make the change is quite self-absorbed of me, which is kind of true, but also somebody has to. Someone has to try. It's it's it's really bad. We don't get movies like months later. I mean, everything ever all at once. I think we got it like three months after you guys. It's really bad. Yeah.
Ofili:Yeah. Congo. Great movie. A little bit about the plot. Pope dies, and we have one of like the oldest traditions of selecting who the new Pope is going to be. And it's just interesting how much of a mix of like political scheming, personal ambition, and like weird hidden secrets. And I just I loved it. I loved everything about the film. How do you guys feel?
SPEAKER_02:I'm kind of surprised they put it in the category of mystery thriller film.
Ofili:That was weird.
SPEAKER_02:It's like, what's going on?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I was really pleasantly surprised by this movie. In a way, I was already super hyped for it. And even then, I was way more pleasantly surprised by it. I think I expected something more studgy, like something more. There was like a sense of like there was this melancholic kind of ember at the bottom of everything. But then at the same time, there was this lightness as well with everything. And you think you don't really look at a pope or you don't really look at like people that are in the Catholic Church as light people, you know, it's quite serious and you know, up there. And I think he got he made it quite personable, and there was realism in it because you felt like they were human beings first before they were religious figures, which I think was what he was trying to show.
SPEAKER_00:So I liked it.
Ofili:It was fun. I I definitely want to say that because that was one of my notes while watching this movie was why are so many of the scenes so relatable?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so relatable.
Ofili:Yeah, like from secondhand embarrassment to having like a vape addiction, and like you know, you're you're going out to smoke with the girls, and like you have to gossip. I love that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. You do have to go, you have to gossip, you have to smoke with the girls, you have to meet in dark, dark uh alleyways to discuss things that no one can hear about. You know, even though you're in a main stairwell with echoes, you know.
SPEAKER_02:Right. You're discussing problem. Yeah, it was a good movie. I think I was I don't know how I felt about it before watching it. I was just like, you know, seems like a good movie. What's his name? The main character?
SPEAKER_00:Um Ray Fienes. Ray Fines.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I I was like, he makes good movies. Um Kinksman is one of my favorite like series movies, I guess. So it's like I it has to be good. It's always gonna be good. So I didn't know what to think prior. I watched the trailer and I was like, alright, cool. And then I went in, I was actually texting up and I was like, the shots of these films are actually cool. Like them sitting in a theater, what it feels like. Insane. It was it was a cool, like insane.
SPEAKER_01:I was like, this is nice, and it felt intimate and and the and the Yes, it did feel super intimate as well.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. Like seeing him cry and then seeing him.
SPEAKER_00:From the very beginning, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Uh go through the process of death and then selection and the whole building being bombed to something. That was interesting. I was like, yeah. But no, overall, great girl. Ending though, wow. I was I was like, wow.
SPEAKER_01:I have thoughts on the ending.
Ofili:I feel like we have to wait and talk about other parts of the ending before we get to the ending.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, okay.
Ofili:Because I feel like that is I really want to follow the way the same way we had the Honora discourse on how we had different views on the ending. Save that from the end of the episode. So that was serious.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, okay. Put a pin in that okay. Should we start from the beginning then?
Ofili:Yeah, I I think like from the opening shot with him walking under the bridge, like there's just like an air of seriousness. And of course, it's a full film, but we're like, Yeah, why are we following him through like this is dead of night, this is pretty dark. Like, what this is interesting. I feel like it grabs your attention immediately from that opening shot. And a lot of freebies don't do that for me anymore.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, there was this like sense of you know, this is something really momentous, like a pope is dead, you know what I mean? But then also what Miss Garner said was really interesting is that sometimes when those things sort of happen and then they also happen in a kind of like hugely masculine space, which I think is what Berger is trying to show that that actually like women are way secondary, you know, in the religious order in that area. But you never see them cry. Like it's not an intimate thing, but there is real intimacy immediately when he when we you know Ray Fine's face is revealed and it's revealed what's going on, and there's real like somber energy there because before he was a Pope, he was all their friends, and you know, there was a close relationship that they had with him, and I think that's the movie telling you, okay, this is a really serious kind of election going on here, but everyone has a s their sentimental value in everything that like there's a secondary sentimental value amongst every every aspect of this, which is I think nice grounding for the start of the movie. I don't know.
Ofili:Okay, I I definitely agree with that. I didn't think about it that way. But I guess definitely looking at the film on like a deeper level of this is not just the election of a new Pope, but this is also about the loss of a friend.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. Yes, but also actually now uh building on what you're saying, I think the motivations of each character actually are revealed in that first scene, in the sense that you have Ray Fine's character really mourning him, you have Sandy Tucci's character really mourning him, and then you have gosh, I forgot his name.
Ofili:It's uh John John Legger.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, John Legger. Yeah, and he is, you know, already plotting. Already plotting. And I think that's that's exactly what I mean, again, relatable because that's exactly what happens in funerals. You go to a funeral, that's what's happening. Everyone has their agenda because at the end of the day, human beings are individualistic, they're going to have an agenda. You know, it's going to, it's anything that happens, it has to like matter to them and has to relate to their own lives. But I do think because we're following Rafe and we start with Rafe on this long walk, he's panting, he's trying to get there on time. It's proven that Rafe is our viewpoint and he is our heart of the story. We're following him, and he is he is dealing with this crisis of I need to be this managerial person, but I'm very unhappy because this deeply emotional thing has happened to me. And I'm supposed to be somewhat stoic about it, but I don't really want to have to be, in a way.
SPEAKER_02:Right. Because even after the lost hope, there's a scene where one of them comes and like the messenger comes and says, Something has happened, and he's like, Did somebody die? Like, does someone gonna die again? I feel like it really shows that Jesus is not happy to be in the position of one death to having to vote for one of his friends to become the next pope, have a big say in that. Um, and then also having to deal with the rumors that are going on, yeah. Um, and the sister like being slapped or something, and having to deal with that.
SPEAKER_01:There's a lot of yes, the sister being slapped, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, he had to go through different like hardships on his own, and then the Pope dying without telling him about like certain things, like he's like, Why am I picking up this weight? And I guess you can see the frustration being removed. Yeah, yeah, him crying, and then the new the new uh cardinal coming and can be like you should be the Pope, and that is also another thing.
SPEAKER_01:Can we we I think we need to talk about that though, about that.
Ofili:I do have I have a couple things to say. So, first thing on a much slighter note, I don't know if you guys have ever had the anxiety of accidentally becoming important to our work.
SPEAKER_00:I have, yeah.
Ofili:This this happened for him on the biggest scale. Yeah, yeah, it did. It did. I feel like he was it's it's it's exhausting. It is it is frustrating and incredibly funny.
SPEAKER_01:But the but the but the deceased Pope is such a sly fox. Like if you think about all the things that he was hiding. I mean, he hid those documents in his in his fucking bed frame. Like what like this, he was really plotting and scheming, knowing he was about to die and leaving all this drama for them to fight. He hid Benitez as well, yeah. He did, and then called Benitez to come without telling anyone, yeah.
Ofili:Yeah, and I I found that very I found that very insane, but I do want to go back a little bit. I guess what Ralph Raines was also going through. I think not only was it the immense pressure from the situation and the loss of like a friend and the mourning of a mentor, and having to like pick up your role as you know the manager and conduct this new election, I think he was also going through that massive tension of faith. It's a very Catholic thing where you're so exposed and you're so involved that there's like this desperate search for certainty and the true practice of the church. And he talks about this within his his homily, his like the preaching that he does, where he goes off script. And I felt like those were some of the most relatable parts of the film where it's it's I don't know, it's just how do you guys feel about that whole certainty and delta angle that was like very core to the film?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I agree. I think the film is try it's trying to. I mean, the the certainty where you know the line is basically something about, you know, if there's if there's you know, if there's no doubt, then and your certainty is the enemy, is what he he said in in that line or something of something of the sort. I'll pull up the line later because I wrote it down. But yeah, I think there's this a few things going on. I feel the first one is this divide in between your losing faith in God versus losing faith in the church, which I think is a separation Berger is trying to make of like the church can be isolated from this faith that we have. Maybe our faith is unwavering, but we can lose faith in the church and the structure of the church and kind of you know how the church, the people within the church in that sense. But then I think with him it was that as well as I think maybe just wanting to not be under such a strict dogma anymore. Because he wasn't suggesting, you know, atheism or to completely take a break from it. He was just suggesting removing himself from the Vatican to kind of go. I think he said something about a new order or to go and follow a different, I don't know what they call them, but a different discipline or something still of I bet of Cat Catholicism. But I liked it. I think it was it was good to show that because I think as a layman, you probably look at people that are deeply religious as people that their faith is never shaking in that sense. And often deeply religious people say things that non-religious people don't agree with. And I think the idea that we're all human and there is doubt and there isn't this, you know, absolute certainty about everything. No one knows every one thing, and we all will have a moment where we don't know what we're doing, I think allows us to kind of meet in the middle in a nice way. So yeah. I liked it.
SPEAKER_02:And also to build on that, it all allows give space for us to uh change our minds.
SPEAKER_03:I think that's true.
SPEAKER_02:Somebody to be a cardinal for so long and to be committed to for this lifestyle, God knows when he started doing it. But maybe he wanted something different, and maybe he wanted to close that chapter and move on to something different. And we really don't know what that is and know what we're look that looks like. We just see him feeling relief that he doesn't have to do anything. Yeah, yeah. And I also believe to some degree, I think the Pope didn't predict his death. I think maybe he wanted to like keep things in order before he like gave up leadership or dies. I think it he just dies without completing the task that he has. Inviting somebody to join the cardinal and then to die. You know, I don't think he planned those things. Hopefully not.
SPEAKER_01:So you think he just died prematurely, like in the midst. So he probably knew he was dying, but maybe not with hard lines. Yeah, within the yeah, so suddenly. No, I agree with you, but I still think he was uh planning a lot of things and not telling anyone while he was going about this, his plans.
Ofili:And it leaves people in that position. Well, it leaves it left where he finds in the position that he had to pick up the pieces and discover. So much of the movie is it's not, I wouldn't call it it's like a it's a murder mystery without a miss without a murder. Well, there is a murder, but like it's not really a murder, but he does have to pick up a lot of pieces and find out. So a lot of the film is investigation, so it's very interesting.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:What did you guys think about the Cardinal Benitez being invited by the deceased Pope? What did you guys think about that? Do you think that he ceded Cardinal Benitez's appointment as his uh successor from the start? Do you think Cardinal Benitez is the guy that he wanted to succeed him?
Ofili:I think definitely. I unfortunately that this is one of my biggest problems with the film. Okay, do say with the end of the film, okay, it just doesn't make sense how I know they were partially unwelcoming to him because he's a very new face. So it just didn't make sense where he was as accepted as he was over, let's say, about a week, then allowed to ascend the way he was allowed to ascend. Again, because again, these are all deeply powerful people, and yes, they've been around each other in the same circles at least a decade. Yes, a new face does not come and is allowed to ascend as as quickly as they did.
SPEAKER_02:Maybe that was the safest choice. Maybe the they went the safe way, because imagine one like one of the cardinals that were going against each other got picked. It would have messed a lot of things up in the church. Of course, a lot of them were against uh the one of the cardinals because he wanted to, he was gonna ruin the church, as they say. But I think it was a safe choice because I think of it in the way that they're gullible, so a lot of things they're not gonna change like immediately. And I have to align the system and whatever. So I think it was a safe choice in terms of saving the relationship within the people in the church.
SPEAKER_01:I don't know because I mean the you know, you have his opposition speech to Tommaso, I think it's Tommaso, and to me that felt weak as a response to Tommaso, and it's supposed to kind of that's supposed to be like a somewhat yeah, rallying cry for him.
Ofili:And that was a brave heart moment.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, a brave heart moment for him, and I don't think it worked, and I and I agree with you, it just it just to me felt quite sudden and like we as the viewer were not really paid off in a way, like that move was not paid off within the within the writing because I was like, okay, we were heading somewhere, and now it's him, and I like the surprise, like it was a lovely twist, and then another twist after that. But you know, it never it never ends. There was this sense in my cinema, everyone kept laughing, I think, out of exasperation because it just felt so bad for poor Rafe, who just kept hearing uh new news every time, every time he thinks he's out of the woods, he really isn't, and he's hearing new news. Yeah, no, I I don't know. I I think it was too sudden and it really didn't make sense to me. I agree with you. I think if if they were if these people were so enraged, I mean they had a terrorist attack happen to them, not even in close proximity, like right there, and they could have died. That itself is like such fuel for you know hatred of other religions or any other person, and and a way of like to tie up your faith, like tight, you know, make it tighten your faith. I I don't think if that happens, a guy telling you that you haven't seen death because he's been on the war in the war zones is going to change your mind. I don't know.
Ofili:Yeah, I I definitely agree, and I think I I okay, I do want to switch a little bit. I'm so sorry. But go I've always wanted to say this. But well, I I the Catholic Institute can be incredibly racist. So I'm so confused how we had Cardinal Adeemi ascending as far as he did. Yeah, that that took me out so much. I I love seeing a black you know, we have black cardinals, but in the conversation for Pope, come on, come on.
SPEAKER_01:I definitely think that that was a bug, like that was more of a macro context thing going on of when I listened to Berg in the screen talk, he talked about in his casting process, he wanted to show the diversity, like the Vatican is really, really diverse, right? Supposedly, and he wants to show you know that diversity. So he, you know, he had Benitez and he had uh Lucius is his real name, the actor's real name. Yeah, and um I oh Lucien, I think his name is Lucien. And I think he just wanted, I think that was just Burger's thing of having different accents and having it be multicultural. So I think he was just psycha, what do you call it? Uh the hand, the mechanical hand playing. Fair enough, fair enough, you know. Um playing. Yeah, yeah, fair, fair enough. But I agree with you. I I completely agree with you.
Ofili:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And I and I also think that if he was found out to have done all the things that he did in slapping that woman, he would have definitely gone down way worse as well.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the the Catholic world, the Roman Catholic word is not as forgiving.
SPEAKER_01:So to show he wouldn't be absolved of that so quickly.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, to show mercy so easily, of like, oh, just restart. I don't I don't think they would be as gracious. Maybe Thomas isn't as gracious because he was in a position of not wanting to hurt his friends, technically. I mean, these people are the people that he's grown up with within the church, faith-wise and age-wise, too. So it's maybe he didn't want to be like exiled from the church because of like sympathy and empathy that he has for him.
Ofili:Okay, since we're still on, I guess, general character analysis, how did we feel about Sister Rosalini?
SPEAKER_00:Amazing.
Ofili:I've loved her very few lines, but very impactful.
SPEAKER_01:So I think that uh hers is like kind of a a subtle, obviously a subtle performance, but I think nonverbal mostly because she doesn't really say very much. I loved her little courtesy though. I think that's what has making all the Twitter people be like, you know, this is a diva of uh This movie is basically a diva off, which I kind of agree because that that courtesy after basically throwing like kerosene to the fire and then just curtsying and being like, Okay, I'm out, bye. No, I loved her in it, and I I guess I was expecting her to be more in it after hearing the buzz around her and maybe to play more of a pivotal role in it. I do remember Bug also saying that he promised her that she would have a small role, but the camera will always follow her. And even if she was not speaking, that he'll make sure that the camera is following her because he wants to make this point about where you know women are in the religious order and how they are so below and so you know just meant to serve in a way. I feel like that was that was true. I wanted more of her though. I feel like if if we if we could have had more of her, I would have liked that.
Ofili:I think that is also I feel like that might have also been broke this point. And I think she has one of her very few lines, I'm emphasizing very, very few lines, was something about women are to be seen and not heard.
SPEAKER_01:Not heard, yes.
Ofili:So that I think her role just really encapsulated that, and she's rebelled a little bit, you know. When she opened up the computer and left the room, that was like then a big one later on right before the curtsy, and that was that was lovely. That was a lovely thing. Yes. And that's also where we get our famed vape hits. Yeah, that was lovely.
SPEAKER_00:No, I I loved it.
SPEAKER_02:I think she did what she was meant to do um to show who women are within the Roman Catholic space. And I think she did play a role in terms of you see how I think one of the cardinals that actually showed respect to her was the the new cardinal.
SPEAKER_01:So Benitas, yeah, he did.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, Benitas was the only the only person that actually cares. Maybe you I mean you also get to see how in the Catholic world, depending on where you are, women are regarded differently. Maybe where he came from women are also heard and seen and spoken to. But maybe in this Roman Catholic Church, women are not heard or spoken to, they're just seen. And it it kind of it kind of introduced that to me, and I was like, alright, like, you know, it's like you coming to America. I mean, for me, me coming to America and giving everybody hugs. People don't do that here.
Ofili:No, they don't. They don't.
SPEAKER_02:We don't do that either. So yeah, it's it's a huge, it's a huge like culture of change. Maybe we we maybe the director wanted to show that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I'm I'm just wondering if he is just generally someone who respects everyone regardless of his place in the church or not. Because I would I don't know if I would argue that within the cat like the Catholic Church per se, I don't know about other Christian Christian dominate domination denominations, but I would say that women are still quite low, like in terms of in terms of this in the service, if they are within the church, you know. So I wonder if it's if that's the reason that he was picked to be the Pope is because he he surpasses all of that and instead follows his true beliefs, and he that he feels like that's more important than what the traditions of the church is, if you know what I mean. So like he's more of a like an out outlier. I wonder, because I'm I'm wondering what makes him so fantastic to be the Pope.
Ofili:Okay, so I think what you're saying is what the movie is trying to really push on us, where dynamics established does not really support that. So in the movie, I feel like even down to Whitmas Galler's example of how one of the first ones that shows courtesy towards Sister Rosellini, it's meant to, and later on his speech about working in the most dangerous places, preaching the word of Kabul, yeah, and Congo and Congo, which are not as safe as fucking Milan and Napoleon. Hell no. So that's where you can't really you can't hang. Yeah, yeah. I think it's more so it shows his Christ-likeness and how this forgetting about the traditions of you know what Telesco is really pushing about, like, oh, we need an Italian Pope because the tradition is Italy and you know the Vatican and everything. Where's more so it's not about what traditions have been, it's about what is more Christ-like or what is more towards what we aim to be as Christians. Which I love that depiction, but again, we have seen someone transport your baby mama from 20 years ago or 30 years ago to ruin your political chances. I don't think these people are playing very fair games.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, no, but yes, but no, but yes, that's not I think what you're talking about right now is the difference between church and religion and the God and the church is what you're saying. And I think in the sense of the church is wayward, they are they are solely based on personal ambition, and that will make you know him bring his uh long-lost baby mama who he effed when he was 19 to the fuck to fucking room. But but but but but I think you know the di you your own dog, like your personal dogma is different from you know the dogma of the church structure, if that makes sense.
Ofili:I understand, but you know we but okay. This is where I love this because we're we're gaining to what I want to talk about next, which is the actual voting system. It works. This was not a popular vote. This was not everyone who's a Christian or Catholic, you get to vote and share your opinions, share your views. This is the limited, powerful people in the room who are also running with their various factions deciding who is going to be next. And again, I just don't believe that these people would with within, I know I mean, I don't think they care about their consciousness based on some of their actions and who they have back, because Tedesco is violently racist. Everybody knows that Lego still got votes despite being pretty corrupt. Fines definitely let himself know and made it very clear I do not want to be Pope. So, like they didn't want to choose Tucci for I don't know, I really don't know why Tucci kept on losing. That that that was really sad and embarrassing.
SPEAKER_01:No, because Tucci is too liberal. That's exactly the that's exactly the stupidest thing. Their campaign pissed me off because I was like, you are too and also Rafe's Rafe's speech at the start actually did fuck his campaign up, and he was correct when he confronted him about his own personal vision. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I will say, okay, going back to Cardinal uh Ben Beninquez, maybe this is just me thinking, maybe he's very welcoming and very like he he sees everyone because he knows what it is to not be seen.
Ofili:And I say this because he was a woman at one point and he changed to being a man, or I don't know what the transition was, but I would I would argue I I think there was a correction, so I don't I don't think he I think by the time he tries I think they were just intersex, so yeah, he's intersex.
SPEAKER_01:So oh sh oh they are intersex, they're intersex, yeah. Their whole life, their whole life, discovering.
SPEAKER_02:Maybe it's because maybe because they understand the both sides, or he understands the both signus of being not seen as an intersex person and then completely being seen as a man and being allowed to be divided in spaces of being a pope and wanting to be a pope, or being spaces of higher cardinals compared to the cardinals that he was part of where he came from.
SPEAKER_01:But I would argue that maybe he was the best fit for that reason, not because of his sexual orientation or how he was created, but more so because he understands what it feels to lack to like lie in between like to be to be in between the lines and to not be able to fit in directly into each cat into one particular category.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, maybe as you were speaking, I'm thinking that perhaps the whole thing about this movie, because there's so many kind of like subsects, obviously it's about religion, it's about the church, and that's what we know it's about. But then there's so many different subsects, and I keep wondering to myself, what is the subsect that was most important to the filmmaker? What did he want? And actually, thinking from what you're saying, is it maybe that the kind of female position was really important to him in the sense that what you're saying, Miss Garner, I agree with you. It's like he's able to understand both the female and both the male side, but also like what it means to not be on either side. I guess my question is how does that benefit the church if it's not benefiting the uplifting of the woman within the church necessarily? I guess it's some empathy, like an empathetic kind of uh, you know, gained for everyone. But I don't, I don't necessarily know if him being having more womanly traits helps, you know, would the people in the church that are voting, the other card knows whether they see that as obviously they don't know, but the idea that he's a good candidate because he shows these qualities. But what are these qualities, you know?
SPEAKER_02:Maybe, maybe I don't think, yeah, they don't know about his uh his what should we call it, sexual orientation. I think orientation. Maybe yeah, they don't know that, but I think they understand based on how he acted between the two weeks um of being selected as opposed to that. None of them, all of them had biases, all of them issues, all of them had some sort of like agenda, if you will, whether it be Tucci not wanting so to run, or whether him being like, I don't I'm liberal, I want to make this liberal. I think he was the one that didn't come with an agenda, it was just there, and I think that's why they picked him as a non-biased person. Maybe that's why for as far as for I think it helps for the women to for somebody to be like a pope like him just because or for him to be a pope just because of how he is and how he allows uh and sees women in the same space as him. Maybe that will help within the space of of the Catholic Church and how they treat women. But as far as election goes, I think he's just the safe option.
Ofili:I do think that he was a great option, but I still maintain that with what was displayed on screen with their dynamics. It just did not make sense that Benetez wielded enough power. Because I feel like at its core, this is about power dynamics. We can strip this out, take this outside of the Vatican. Yes, yes, it can be anywhere, it can be literally anywhere, it can be in a boardroom, it can be in a boardroom, and it's the same dynamics at its core, and I just don't believe, especially with Benita's also putting I guess by displaying trace that we are aligning more with women, gains him more power in that case because Tucci's character was a man who had also established power through his contact and communications and his personal with the previous Pope. But his views of empathy towards people who were RGB TQ and women and just other progressives did not win him votes on all counts. On like, I don't think there was a single stage Succi was one, yeah. I don't think he was even second to eight. One or two, even one or two, yeah. Yeah, I don't think he was second or eight.
SPEAKER_01:But but actually, but actually, the point that Miss Ghana is raising is interesting in the sense of no, he maybe there is some credence to the fact that he's an outsider. He doesn't, he's not involved in this internal politics because he doesn't have the history, you know, that they have. He doesn't have the biases, biases that they have too. And maybe they voted for him because I mean, you have to imagine what it's like to be a cardinal and while they're being sequestered in this uh time. You know, you start off and you think everything is fine, you kind of know who you're going to vote for. You hear that one of the cardinals has been uh has been uh stealing funds, another one, you know, has slaps another woman the next day, another one is doing this, it keeps so you know, so many things keep happening, and you're just thinking, what the hell is going on? There's so much like everything, like there's so much disillusion, everything is so messy. And here is this man who doesn't know anything about that and is just talking about you know his what he believes, you know, and he is removed from it. And maybe you want to elect him because he's not stained like the rest of everyone else, you know. But your point still stands in terms of okay, yes, he's not stained, and yes, okay, he's a blank page, but is he a blank page? Because you don't know him, is my thing. We don't know his views. He could easily be, you know, an intersex man and still, I don't know, you know, love the woman but want to kill the gays. You know, we don't know. We'd actually don't know what his views are.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, maybe the movie is not about power. I mean, it's may like when you think about like the Catholic Church, if you're a Pope, you're powerful. Maybe the movie is exploring Catholicism, Catholicism. Catholicism Catholicism with without the power in the context of who should be the next player. The seat, but uh because we rarely did they talk about power. I mean they they talked about what they wanted to do within the church, but the it didn't go beyond the church.
SPEAKER_01:I think maybe you know, I think maybe the power in terms of like personal ambition to get there, it reminds me of uh this movie. This is really this is really so not this movie, it's a TV show with uh Adam Birdie as the rabbi. I forgot the name, but nobody wants this. Nobody wants it. Okay, so let me just explain this tangent. I'm gonna go on for a second. The reason it reminds me I'm gonna I'm going to, and it's going to make sense, I promise you. So in Nobody Wants This, he is he he's going to be appointed the new head rabbi, right? Yeah. And he has this, he's dating Kristen, Kristen, I forgot her name, but Kristen Bell. And um, she is like this, you know, like modern woman, she doesn't really care. His ex-girlfriend was this really religious girl who also shared his understanding what head rabbi means to him, right? Is this this like and she's also Jewish, and this was like it was this like you know, amazing appointment and this ascension that's happening. And when she has come a confrontation with Kristen Bell's character, she says, You think like this is just like silly games or whatever, but this is like this is a big thing, and this is something that we won't have wanted like our whole lives. And I think it relates back to Conclave in terms of that is what their personal ambition is, because that is the top of the line, there's no higher place for them, just like there's no higher place for Adam Brady's character or Adam Brady's ex-girlfriend, there's no higher place for, you know, so the personal ambition will only go up to there, and then it's like that's that that's obviously where it would end. So I think you're right in terms of there's no power in terms of lording power over the members of your religious order or you know, people that are not cardinals, but there is power in terms of wanting that ascension to the top, you know, to be to be that anyway. That's the weird link I thought about.
Ofili:It makes sense. You came back, you came back. Yeah, yeah. Um but yeah, I think I think this was this pretty good. The the power conversation there are very interesting because I do think that it's the only time that's really ever distinctively spoken that do you want this or do I want the power is Ralph Finds also, Ray Finds also like in his doubt and uncertainty about him being a good person, talkingless of being a good pope.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
Ofili:So that that's very interesting. But I want to switch gears real quick. So a lot of conversations about this is talking about production design, that this might be one of like the little sneaky picks for production design. Yes, yes, let's talk about this. That is insane because it's it's it's great and the shots are amazing. I feel like the shots are great and they elevate to being amazing when you find out that the Vatican doesn't allow shooting.
SPEAKER_01:No, they don't, which you would expect. They have to build everything. Yeah, it makes sense. They had to build everything. Yeah, Berger mentioned that too about that. He was like, Oh, he went looking for locations a lot, and he obviously couldn't shoot in Vatican, so he would go in like a tourist and like, you know, do these tok tour guides over and over again. And then he found some place, I forgot where it was called, you know, still in Rome, and he built, he built his own Vatican City, but he wanted the housing to look like a prison. So that sort of those sort of shots, those long shots of all the doors and it kind of being centered in that way, is and you hearing, you know, the the kind of like metal clack clagging of like opening inside the doors and etc. He wanted to feel like it was this sort of like prison-like, you know, place, just yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, that's cool. I didn't know that. That's actually interesting that they committed to doing that.
Ofili:So I think it it might be a sneaky pick for production design, but I don't think it I don't think it can win over Wicked, I'm not going to lie. But, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I mean, Wicked uh is another one. I actually recently was at this is really funny because I think everything that's happened to me this weekend is really circular. I was out with my friends last night. I was at dinner, and one of my friends knows somebody who built the train on Wicked, and she was telling me, I know, she was telling me that everything, almost everything you think is built is actually built. And I also still have a friend that was an extra on it that showed me some pictures, and she was like, Oh, it's everything is really built. So I do agree with you. I do think Wicked kind of has to take it because they really worked hard, you know, to build that. And it was just on the Warnersboro's lot, which is in the UK, it's like just outskirts of London that they built all of that, which is kind of crazy to me. But another thing also is Berger said he looked for he filmed his movies in a wonderful studio where Fellini also filmed his movies as well. So he felt like that was a nice kind of air of you know, I don't know. I just thought I'll add that in. Yeah. Back to Oscars.
Ofili:It's called according to my notebook in the Cita studio, so that's yes, yes, very interesting, but yeah, so we're getting towards the end. I want to talk about Oscar nominations. So Oscar nomination. Oh, I'll take it. We think we do, we can talk about the end.
SPEAKER_01:No, maybe maybe we talk about the end at the end, because we're now talking about Oscars. So we might as well start. We might as well start talking if keep talking about Oscars since we're already talking about.
Ofili:On the flow. So out of the things that you have watched, everyone, let me know. What are some of your your favorite best picture on?
SPEAKER_01:Oh okay. Does anyone else want to go for a shock or not?
Ofili:Actually, Miss Ghana, you have to.
SPEAKER_01:Oh we just push Miss Ghana to the to the curve. Miss Ghana, I support you. I I didn't I don't support this male uh manipulation going on here. I would have supported you if I knew it would be this, you know.
Ofili:Ghana has a running list of what she thinks is gonna win wise.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, no, Miss Ghana, I need to hear this.
SPEAKER_02:I think uh for I don't know which which part of like winning they would go in, but I will say Diddy, the movie. Sorry, not the sorry what the person I can the movie, I if you haven't watched it.
SPEAKER_01:Oh yeah, DG, yeah. DG. Yeah, the movie, yeah. Really good.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, Ami is Ami's youngest child in I don't know if it's Cantonese or Mandarin, but to keep that in mind.
SPEAKER_01:She's like, oh it's not Sean Diddy Combs. It's not it's not him.
SPEAKER_02:No.
SPEAKER_01:She's trying to clarify. I know for the lame the listeners that are not really listening, that will just catch the Diddy only.
SPEAKER_02:Please, yes. I think that will win. I don't know which category though. Dune will win, I I definitely think.
SPEAKER_00:You think Dune will win? Dune too?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah. I think it's a lot.
SPEAKER_01:Interesting. I disagree with you.
Ofili:Oof. Wait.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
Ofili:Dune to win which one though.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, exactly. It's win which one. Tell us.
SPEAKER_02:Maybe best picture.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, no, I definitely disagree with you on that one.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think I think Anora has a has a good chance, yeah.
Ofili:Yeah. I think Dune might get best cinematography. Yes, I agree.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, maybe not.
Ofili:And maybe close second for costume design, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01:No, I think now we have Wicked in the play, and we we have also Conclave in the play, too.
Ofili:We do have Conclave.
SPEAKER_01:So I don't think Dune is gonna be up there anymore.
Ofili:Film editing?
SPEAKER_01:Film editing, I think, is for sure.
Ofili:I think that might depend on how good the Bruce List is. That's very true. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:The Bruce List, I think, is really hard. It's hard to make any decisions after not watching the Bruce List, which I think is a huge contender. It's hard to do that.
Ofili:So I'm just going to be Yeah. It is. Oh my god, four hours.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Okay, so you're saying, Miss Garney, you're saying Dunto and D D.
SPEAKER_02:Mm-hmm. And then for our best actress, the woman from Blink Twice.
SPEAKER_01:Who's the woman from Blink Twice? I don't know who that is. Are you nominating her from her Blink Twice performance as well?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Nay uh Asiki? I don't know.
SPEAKER_01:I think that's interesting. That's really interesting to me.
Ofili:That was like Mickey Madison. That that goes like I feel like she's taking that and she's running.
SPEAKER_02:I I feel like you have to win. She has to win. The movie was I feel like she made the movie. Mikey Madison.
SPEAKER_00:Is it Mickey or Mikey?
Ofili:I think it's Mickey.
SPEAKER_00:Mickey?
Ofili:I think Mickey.
SPEAKER_00:It's probably Mickey. Mickey, Mickey, Mickey.
Ofili:Honestly, I feel like Blink Twice didn't. I don't think it's cracked any of my list for anything right now, I'm not gonna lie. It's been a personally like a good watch, but I don't think it's I never watched it, so I can't talk.
SPEAKER_01:It was a fun time. But I maybe should.
SPEAKER_02:Watch it with it's it's a movie where the trailer does not do it. Like much more harsh than the trailer.
Ofili:It is man, it's it's a mix of get out and don't worry, darling, but just slightly better and interracial.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Fair enough. Oh, blink twice. I remember the movie. It's the one with Shannon Tatum and Zoe. Oh yeah, I have a thing against Zoe Kravitz.
Ofili:Interesting. Sergeant. Interesting.
SPEAKER_01:I like her, but I just feel like she made like comments about Will Smith's slap. I think she like posted something after the slap, being like, she made a really, really weird caption, and I thought that was really strange. And ever since I've looked at her sideways.
Ofili:No, I feel like she's a little bit more.
SPEAKER_01:As to like why would you just I don't know, I just felt like that was just adding feel to the fire that was already super hot that day. Like it was so I don't know. But I will watch it. But I think I have friends that have said that they didn't enjoy their experience watching it. But I will watch it for you, Miss Gunnar. It's a very if you if you like it, I will I don't I don't like the movie.
SPEAKER_02:I would never watch it again.
SPEAKER_01:But it's a but it's a it's it's something to watch at once.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
Ofili:The content might be a bit triggering, but the film in itself is an enjoyable watch. It's a good one. Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. I'll I'll check it out. I'll check it out.
Ofili:Okay. Okay, so I know you covered Gladiator in dinner. I have to ask, were you were you not entertained?
SPEAKER_01:I wasn't entertained, no.
Ofili:Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01:I wasn't entertained. I mean, okay, okay, no, no, that's a lie. Okay, let me explain it. It's actually quite it's what it's not easy, yes or no question for me. I I was entertained, yes, was I left I left a lot to be desired for me in terms of character motivations didn't make sense to me. I think it was a screenplay problem, is what I said. And I said this on the podcast, and Priscilla and I really agreed, in the sense of like it is just a screenplay issue. I think I think everybody was performing at their highest level, but unfortunately, the screenplay did not give them enough to work with. And I wonder if there were some editing issues as well going on. But I had a I had a good time. I I think it's a good time in the cinema if you are not looking at the movie critically. You just go in and you have a good time. But when you step back and you think about the film, a lot of things don't make sense, and a lot of CGI does not look good.
Ofili:Yeah. I was in the movie texting the group chat. This is not a good movie. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:This is not it's not a good movie. It's not a good movie, but it's a fun movie, and that's okay. Exactly.
Ofili:The problem is that it was built at like being a great, you know, possible best picture contender.
SPEAKER_01:Here's the thing. No.
Ofili:I feel like it was, but like it wasn't, it's not that. Here's the thing, no. Yeah, you know? It's it's I feel like it's just a movie for fun time.
SPEAKER_02:I feel like it's a lot of pressure. Like it's I I think when when trailers get released so early on, sometimes I feel like trailers just break or make how audience come into their movie, like fair enough.
Ofili:I I I do want to disagree with you.
SPEAKER_02:I don't know if I agree with that. I feel that like I think Gladiator, whenever it's released, Denzel Washington. Denzel Washington, Denzel, Washington, and then people watched it and they were like, This is what's it's you know what's actually interesting?
Ofili:I I actually disagree. I feel like the trailer brought general perceptions, a general view of it down because everyone saw Denzel first. Okay, we don't really give black people high positions in these kind of period pieces. One, yeah, and two, Denzel did not have his British accent on. He had his New York.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, people were people were very, very, very annoyed with the with the accent issue going on.
Ofili:Yeah, and I think the last thing really like banging it, like you know, hitting the drum on what you said, it felt very much like an editing and screenplay issue. The first feel cohesive.
SPEAKER_01:It didn't feel cohesive. That's exactly that's the perfect word. You said everything I said so succinctly. It's not a cohesive film. That is it.
Ofili:It was enjoyable, but the it just really felt like the I'd say by act three, it felt like it that's its own movie. Like if I only watched act three of that movie, I'd be cool. I'd be like, okay, I missed things. But the fact that it came in from the start of the film, and yeah, like it's all that.
SPEAKER_01:But there was there were so many, there were so many avenues for greatness, is what annoys me. Yes, and there were so many.
Ofili:I think also Pedro Casco was like not meant for that movie. It felt like he was just kind of slapped into a role that he doesn't essentially it doesn't really fit in, but he Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Uh you know what. Well I think I think Paul Meskell was the person I think was not was not playing the same movie as others. I love him. I really do love him. And I think I think if the movie went down less of the Russell Crowe kind of man of the people, Messiah coming to talk to the people and change their minds. If they went down the this is a boy that was sent away at a young age, does not know his parents, had to live somewhere else, had to survive, and now he's come there, the source of his trauma to be there, and now he's a slave. That is a tortured, tortured, tortured situation going on. And who plays tortured so well? Our boy, Paul Mesko from Normal People.
SPEAKER_03:That's what I've been saying.
SPEAKER_01:This is this is what you need from him. This is why you hire him. So you're not you're not giving him that. I mean, him going, Oh, he was so annoyed at his mom, and then the next thing he's like, all of a sudden he wants his mom.
Ofili:That scene with his mother made me check out the anger, the misplaced anger, and it just also didn't make sense to me. I understand.
SPEAKER_02:Was it the same directly?
SPEAKER_01:Wait, which one which one checked out? Which one checked out for you? Sorry, Miss Ms. Garda, I'm interested in your question too. But where did you check out? Did you check out in the first conversation with the mom or the second one where he tells the mom that he's going to save her?
Ofili:The first one. The second one did not.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, I just I disagree with you. I I thought the first one was good. That's that's the point where I thought he could shine if they went down that line more.
Ofili:Fair enough. I think the the way the anger came and that scene felt a little bit choppy.
SPEAKER_01:I agree, yes. Bit mispounded, yeah.
Ofili:Yeah, true. I think they had a very unique situation where Maya Callaway was meant to be a very big part of the film when it was first announced. I do not know why she was cut out of every scene. And we know she was filmed and cut out of a lot of scenes because Pedro Pascal, as soon as the film was released, a premiere night, he posted pictures of him and her. So there's a bit of a scandal with it. I don't know if it was interesting related to her viewpoints on Palestine, but yeah, she was cut out from the film, and it's incredibly sad. Because I feel like that then makes sense why there are some choppy bits.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, I I do think so. But I think you you you hit on that and then you hit on Chaos or Kato's, you know, ascension and him kind of learning to like his identity and who really is he? Is he a man of Africa or is he a man of fucking Europe? Like these are things that you know you you do. But yeah, I also said the gladiator thing, I think it's really funny. We're talking on the podcast, and I also think we'll talk in other podcasts about this as well, but it's funny because I think people thought what wicked was now is what gladiator would be. And actually, in terms of the glicked kind of power standings, wicked is the thing that and I don't think wicked has helped Gladiator, not like unlike unlike Barbenheimer, where I think they both helped each other. I think Gladiator being merely surpar, you know, already was one thing. And then now Wicked being, you know, much surprising and I think surprising people in an unsounding way has just kicked Gladiator like out of the boat. Like it's a completely and I think it's going to hurt their Oscar chances for sure. I don't really think they have Oscar chances at all. I would not be surprised if they don't come up in any category.
Ofili:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm I would say that they they they did run through a lot of issues filming Gladiator, like casting wise. That's uh Riley Scott was supposed to be on the very Barry Keogan. Yeah, he was supposed to be Barry Keegan. Sorry, I haven't seen that wrong who's not in it. A lot of issues were when it came up.
SPEAKER_01:I think he would have played it better, I have to admit.
Ofili:Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, one of those brothers. The King Brothers. I think overall, I I would say it's an enjoyable movie. I also enjoyed it because of the elements they added. They added really, really well-known Ethiopian singer who was like in the beginning.
SPEAKER_00:Like really, what was her role?
SPEAKER_02:She was she was a singer. She was she was singing.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, she was singing in the beginning. I don't remember that. Interesting.
SPEAKER_02:Um I was like, yo, this is cool. I think the element of the movie that that was there, like the water scene that was important into the telling of the story of the gladiator. Then adding that element of like nobody goes into water. The fact that they went into water, it was a huge thing. They did their best. I could I think they would have done better, but overall I would give it a three out of five. It was still enjoyable movie in my books. No.
SPEAKER_01:It might it might take some in production design. Maybe.
Ofili:Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:A nomination, a nomination, I wouldn't be a win. If they want to kind of give Ridley something. I mean, he didn't get anything with Napoleon, so Yeah, if they want to give it a lot.
Ofili:I don't think they care. No, I think they I think they care about him. I thought like he feels slight at being one of like the old guard.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So I think they might give him production, but I think that's it.
Ofili:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. What other Oscar nominated movies?
SPEAKER_01:So I mean, so I think best best actress is easy. Actually, best supporting actress is where it gets interesting, I think.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Because that's when you start to think about what are Ariana Grande's chances of getting nominated for an Oscar, and is are they going to, you know, are they is Asselina or Ariana going to be nominated for an Oscar? I don't know. But if I think if I'm talking about like for sure things, Best Picture, I can give three would be Anora, The Brutalist. And there was one last one I've completely forgotten now, out of my brain. But I think Anora, the Brutalist, and I also think Wicked part one will be on the best picture list, is what I think. Because I think you can't deny the effect it's having. And I know they're being a bit delusional right now with Wicked and all these. There's this Hollywood Reporter article about people being like, if your vote didn't count for the president, you'd definitely count for Wicked, which is kind of insane. But I do think we have to consider the political landscape right now, which is the reason why I think Honora will win. Because I think about the year when Coda won Best Picture, and everyone was super surprised.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:And I think we are in one of those years where the political landscape will affect the movie that is nominated. So I think Anora will probably still win, but I think Wicked Part One may surprise us and be in one of the ten of Best Picture.
Ofili:Okay. Okay. I think I'm going to go maybe a different route since everyone's talked about things that they they feel like are going to win for things I I wish could win, but I know how to win. Oh, that's nice. Yes, do that. I know they have no chance. Okay, so I don't know if you watched Sing Sing.
SPEAKER_01:I haven't. I don't think it's out. I don't think it's out in the UK. There we go. This is really nice. This is really nice and cyclical because I complained about this at the beginning. A24, you'll hear from me this week.
Ofili:Yeah, but Colman Domingo and Sing Sing. If there was someone I could just pray for to get that best actor, Coleman Domingo. Sing Singh was phenomenal. Phenomenal.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, who who do we think is going to be nominated for best actor at the moment? I think Rafe will be up there, actually. And then we have who else?
Ofili:I think I have it it depends on how Queer is.
SPEAKER_01:No, I think Quer's out. Quer's completely out. I don't think that I don't think you're getting him through.
Ofili:Okay. I don't think you're getting him through. Dan has two movies this year that's I feel like one of them sneaks in. I think a different man might sneak in.
SPEAKER_01:You think a different man might sneak in in best actor?
Ofili:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Maybe.
SPEAKER_01:Not in screenplay. Fair enough.
SPEAKER_02:I think best actor.
SPEAKER_01:It could be in screenplay. Okay, okay, so we say we have Sebastian Stan, we have Rafe, we have Adrian Birdie, which we're definitely gonna have. Like, let's, you know, that's most likely happening.
Ofili:I really think again, again, we have Brutalis coming up, but we also have a complete unknown, and we don't know how Charlemagne is gonna do.
SPEAKER_01:We don't know how you I think Charlemagne is gonna be up there too.
Ofili:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I have a weird feeling that that will happen. I don't know why.
Ofili:Very weird feeling.
SPEAKER_01:But I have a very weird feeling.
Ofili:We love Salamet, that's the thing.
SPEAKER_01:I think we love Chalamet, but I think Charlemagne actually is going to do a good job, and I think no one is expecting him to. But I feel like he is a he but I don't know. I just feel like people are not expecting him to do that good of a job with this movie. And I maybe, maybe in my corner of the net, but I I I do feel like he will he will do a better job than we expect. I'm not expecting him to do a good job. I'm one of people that don't expect him to do a good job. But I I I I I'm I I think I'll be pleasantly surprised by him.
SPEAKER_02:I think Sebastian Stan might be also after the line for not only a different man, but also the panther. Maybe.
Ofili:Interesting. That's very interesting.
SPEAKER_02:Or John David Washington for a piano lesson.
Ofili:Okay. That is an interesting show. I haven't seen that yet, but I've heard good things about that one.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
Ofili:But I think back to what we were talking about with Timothy Chalamet, I feel like there was a time where earlier in this podcast, Steve and I would ask people who we think are movie stars or who are like who are like the new age movie stars. And yeah, Chalamet is always in that list. So I I think that I always expect greatness from him.
SPEAKER_02:But he needs to, I think what I what I want actors to do is to branch out and do movies that they wouldn't typically do. I think that's very, very important. Because I feel like when I watch Real Pain, Kiran, whatever his name is, I feel like he w might win supporting our actor.
Ofili:I feel like he's like, winning supporting actor might not be a bad show, actually.
SPEAKER_02:But I think generally Real Pain, uh Jesse, whatever his name is.
Ofili:Jesse Eisenberg.
SPEAKER_02:He I feel like he played the same if you watch him in social network and if you watch him the T I felt like watching the same thing. And I generally want to see more. I don't want them to continue doing the same character. Like Michael B. Jordan, who's great in Wired. Now he's he starts doing Creed and Black Panther, and we don't see him in other genres.
Ofili:And it's like Okay, I get what you mean. It's about a difference in like being able to pro portray different characters.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. Tell different stories. Don't just be in one and expect like people to just do one. Like I think the guy from Marvel People was Paul.
Ofili:Paul Muskow. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I think he did well because now he can see him in action, and we also see him in a romance. Um other movies too. And it's good that they are doing more than just one genre because you have to tell stories in other genres to tell people you're a good actor overall, and not just like one type of actor. But I I think Dave Patelman went for Monkey Man. I forgot about that.
Ofili:I don't feel like Monkey Man got I don't think it yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I think that I don't know.
Ofili:I feel like it's not gonna it's not gonna push the people enough.
SPEAKER_02:Really?
Ofili:Yeah, I don't feel like it's gonna push the people enough.
SPEAKER_02:I think the best picture who my own best picture is Bob Miley.
Ofili:I love that you're now you said you said don't worry, we're gonna do my faves. These are my these these are my best pictures.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
Ofili:Fuck the academy.
SPEAKER_02:Fuck the academy for real. They're picking biased anyway.
Ofili:So so, ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for being on the podcast. We have had a great time talking with Miss Ghana and Aisha. Unfortunately, Aisha needed to hop off very quickly. But this has been another episode of the TCA, and this is honestly almost our longest episode. So I'm so happy that we can have guests that we can just chop it up and have a fun time. All right, Miss Ghana, come on.
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