The Cinephile's Aisle
Two film haters and a microphone covering cinema classics, box office blockbusters, and everything in between!
The Cinephile's Aisle
Episode 20: "Awards Talk–SAG's and BETTER MAN" feat. Irima
Awards season is here, and for this episode, we are thrilled to be joined by Irima to kick it off! We discuss the 2025 SAG Awards’ biggest categories: Outstanding Male and Female Leads and their Supporting counterparts. Then, we switch gears to talk about why a Better Man stands out. We had a blast recording this one and we hope you enjoy it too.
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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Cinephiles Isle. Very excited to have another episode. Today O'Filly is joined by Irima, one of our long-term listeners and one of my personal favorite people and favorite Cenophiles slash upcoming Cenophiles. Do you do you consider yourself a Cinephile? Fair enough. Introduce yourself, my guy.
SPEAKER_02:Hi guys, my name is Irima. I'm Ophelia's friend. I like movies. I like drawing. I like the gym.
SPEAKER_00:That's everything that's to know about Irima right now. Just movies, drawing, and gym. Okay. So I don't think so. I think it's it's like having discipline, you know, have your your three main things. Aside from like work. I feel like we've talked about you hopping on the pod for some time now. So I'm just happy that I finally just, you know, everything clicks and a little schedule's aligned.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So unfortunately, today, you know, little busy schedule. It's just me today. But, you know, we'll be back for the next episode with Steve and other people. It should be a good vibe. So for this episode, we're gonna kick off our award season coverage with the sag or sag after, guess whichever way you wanna call it. So, Irima, the Globes just passed, SAGs are up next. I think Bafta is somewhere along the way. Then the Oscars. Did you watch The Globes or any of the awards so far? And do you plan to watch any of the upcoming ones?
SPEAKER_02:Honestly, no. I just like commentary on it. I feel like I don't really know the difference between each one. It's just more like if I see a movie that I like and I like or a few movies I liked, I just want them to be there. If you get an award, did you get no?
SPEAKER_00:I get that. I get that. I think for me, that's kind of why this episode works really well, or why I hope this episode works. I really enjoy the whole, you know, one person is super familiar and chases it and does like the rankings, and we do our lists and we bet on which ones, you know, our draws for which ones would win which, and you're like, Well, I just watch the movies and I don't I don't really care who wins what.
SPEAKER_02:Like, I'm just there for the things I enjoy, man. Sometimes I'll see something won an award, and I'll be like, oh my god, that's outrageous. I don't even think you should go home by anything.
SPEAKER_00:But that's fair. Same, same. So we're gonna do a little bit of hating on this episode. We'll try and reel it in, but yeah, a little bit of hating, of course. But I guess to jump into like the sags. So sags are the Screen Actors Guild Awards, I think they were established in 1995. Presented annually by the SAG After to honor outstanding performances in film and primetime television. And I think what the main difference between the SAGs and a lot of other ones are they are exclusively peer-judged. So essentially actors recognized and celebrated by their fellow actors. Yeah. So I think personally, like it's one of the biggest differences, like when people are like, Oh yeah, I hate when the academy is like doing this, or the academy never acknowledges XYZ. Yeah, why don't you just watch the sags or you know, push for more, support the sags more since it is you and your homies, or you and your fellow, you know, your peers speaking amongst yourselves like who cooked the most this year? And I really like that. We can go through the nominations and I know we've watched about yeah, go on.
SPEAKER_02:So in the other awards, like Oscars, Golden Globes, all of that, who is judging that?
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so the Golden Globes. Well, I can let me talk more about the Oscars since that's a little bit of the next episode we're gonna cover, and since the Golden Globes have already passed. So the Oscars are officially known as the Academy Awards, and they're judged by the Academy of Motion Pictures and Sciences. Motion Pictures, Arts and Sciences, my bad. And they're just like a professional honorary organization, and it's about 10,000 voting members, just industry professionals across various disciplines of filmmaking. So it's actors, but only about 1,300 directors, producers, writers, cinematographers, editors, sound designs, costume designs, production, makeup, hairstyling, visual effects, and executive public relationships. But it's kind of it can be a bit of a boys' club. It has a history of being a bit of a boys' club, and we've seen quite a bit of like snubs and shocking wins at the Oscars. The SAGs probably have a decent amount, but I know because the Oscars is the one that's like mainstream or like you know the main award that everyone talks about, you know, for music is the Grammys, for film is the Oscars. So we that's catapulted to the front more. But yeah, that's what we talk about. The Oscars is a bit of a voice club, whereas the Sags is like you and your peers.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. Okay, that makes sense.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that makes sense. So are you excited to jump into the nominations?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Yeah, so we can start with the first one is outstanding performance by a male actor in a leading role. So the nominees are Adrian Brody for Lazarus Hoth as the brutalist, Timothy Chalamet, a complete unknown, the Bob Dylan biopic, Daniel Craig for Queer, plays William Lee, Coleman Domingo, who plays Divine G in Sing Sing, and Ray Fiennes, who plays Cardinal Lawrence and Conklet. How do we feel about these? Which ones are your favorite? What do you think is like who's there, and you're like, why are you there? What did you watch? And you're like, yeah, you deserve to win. What's your vibes generally?
SPEAKER_02:I feel like everyone here is like very good in their respective whatever. So I can't be like, man, like I I don't believe like you're that great of an actor and actress to be here. But what was I gonna say? I feel like the brutalist, I'm avoiding it, sure, we're going to watch it, but like I just don't know why a movie is that long. I feel, but then I'm also trying to be like, you know, this is a body of work, and the film is not like where I see because I draw like you get. So I'm just like, I'm not like in that space, if that makes sense. I didn't watch a complete unknown or queer or sing, so I can't say too much, but I do want Coleman Domingo to get something because I really like him. I really loved Conclave. Conclave was really good. Conclave was really good. You know, he did his big one. Like, I mean he's done his big one like multiple times. I'm not gonna lie, like he has a few good stuff Ralph does, but um, I feel like yeah, that was just a really good movie. So I think she got something. What do you think?
SPEAKER_00:This is probably the second podcast episode, and probably another like because I was on popcorn for dinner as well, like literally just campaigning for conclave. So I'm just like, please, we need to award Ray Fines, and I'm sure the Bruce Elis is an amazing film. I will go watch it this week. Excited for that, but I think this has to go to Ray Fienes.
SPEAKER_02:Um I I want to be honest with you, I didn't want to say his last name because I didn't want to mispronounce it.
SPEAKER_00:Honestly, we had like an episode, we had like two episodes ago, the one with Aisha and Miss Ghana, where we spent about 10 minutes talking and finding out his name, like the right pronunciation. Yeah. I kept saying Ralph Finds, and I was like, it's Rafe.
unknown:Eh?
SPEAKER_02:It's not Ralph.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's not Ralph, it's Rafe.
SPEAKER_02:I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:Nah, you're killing me, man. But I think going down the list again, I watched Chalomet's The Complete Unknown on Christmas Day when it dropped. And I could tell this was great. I could tell he did an amazing job, especially like you know, looking at the rest of the cast. It's a great film. But it was also one of those things that I'm like, okay, this did not move me the way I thought it was going to move me. And I think biopics, they have this biopics are hard to stand out in because they have a pattern. They have that rise, fall, rise pattern. So you kind of see it, and it's very hard to stand out when you're doing a biopic. In my opinion.
SPEAKER_02:Like I feel like it's still like I mean, that's just how life is, but everyone's life is like very different, you know? So I think what makes it biopic is usually like just who they cast for it, and like what was I going to say? I guess what aspects of that person, like what kind of story are they trying to tell about that person's life? Yes, usually it's inspiring and it's always like the highs, the lows, but what about the highs and lows? Like everybody's overcoming something different. Like, you know what I mean? Like if I watch like Tina Turner, like she overcame like domestic abuse and a lot of stuff. All of them are finding themselves, same premise, right? But like it's still like um what's the word in different ways. It's yeah, exactly. So I don't know if I would agree with that. Like that's still the same, even if I know what to expect, like in terms of No, I get that.
SPEAKER_00:I just think it's it's a little bit hard to stand out you and me. Like, I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying it's a little bit harder. But yeah, I but I guess the same can be said about the brutalis, which is technically like you know, it's technically a biopic as well, but it's not like a musical biopic. So that's that's interesting. And I think we're also gonna talk about another biopic that we both watched recently that is oh man, the reviews and like the conversations around this, I really hate how much I I've been wanting to talk about better man the Robbie Williams thing.
SPEAKER_02:It was really good. I don't know if you want to watch it now or you want to wait because if we something like that, drag it.
SPEAKER_00:I think we can delay it to like the last 10 minutes where we just talk about better man. But to get back to this though, didn't love Daniel Craig in Queer. I don't know why he's there. I just I'm like Porto Bear in Texas, you get me? That's mean. I think the problem was they expected Gladiator to be so good, and that spot was probably for Paul Mesco. Then you're like, oh okay, we have this other this this other movie with a white man that we need to nominate.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, I don't know though. I feel like um has he ever played a role like regarding his sexuality?
SPEAKER_00:I don't think so.
SPEAKER_02:I haven't watched it, but they should just give him, you know, fair enough.
SPEAKER_00:Fair enough. Really enjoyed Sing Sing, though. I think in another in another life they would have won something really good. Really enjoy that. Divine G was such a good performance, and I think what made me campaign for him more that he definitely needs something was because of Do you remember Zola? That movie that was based off of tweets.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:When when he plays like the Nigerian pimp drug dealer thing, and he switches into the accent. It gave me like a Michael Blackson type. I know, I know, but like I think just in general, the contrast from that and who he actually is just made me, yeah. I need to, I need to rep him. I need to support Coleman Domingo. Because the truth is, in Sing Sing, his divine G character, I could see that being Coleman Domingo. That's not too that's not too different. Do you get what I mean? But let's jump down looking at the list for outstanding performance by a female actor in leading role. So we have Pamela Anderson in the last showgirl, which a lot of people are talking about, and it's it seems really good and seems really positive. Might watch that scene. Honestly, we might even drop like a part episode around it. I'm not too sure, but you know, it's very possible. Then the Cynthia Ervo as Alphaba and the Wicked.
SPEAKER_02:Get it. I didn't watch it, but like I don't want to watch Wicked, but like I just think she should she should get to us by like I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:I think I preferred Wicked as a play than the film.
SPEAKER_02:And only one person can take this, right? Only one person can take it. Yeah, only one person can take this. Okay, damn. Never mind. I take that back.
SPEAKER_00:Then there is Carla Sofia Gascon, who is an Emilia and Pera Emilia Perez, and I don't, you know, don't love that. You know how I feel about Emilia Perez? We've talked about it. I don't think it's I'm so confused. I'm so confused that I don't think it should be here, but most likely going to be the winner. Really want Mickey Madison to win for Nora because Nora was amazing.
SPEAKER_02:I was a great thing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Because I remember I watched that and I was talking about it for like weeks. But speaking of Honora, you could watch our previous episodes to just catch up on how we felt about listen to our previous episode. I don't think we dropped a video for that one. But yeah, that's a great one. And the last one is Demi Moore for the Substance. I know you love the Substance. You wrote me, you wrote me paragraphs about the Substance.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, it was pretty nice. I mean, I just saw the theater, actually. So I was saying everything on my mind at that time. Yeah. I feel like I don't know, but I'm looking at it like, okay, between that, Anora, I haven't watched the last show, but I really want to. I don't know. Like, I don't want what's that thing that you said it one time. Familiar prize. No, it's a term. Recency biased. Oh yeah, recency biased.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So I don't want to like watch these other two. I mean, I do because I want to be well informed, but I'm also like already so biased with these two that I feel like if I like the other two too much, I might forget about these ones. I don't know if you get what I mean.
SPEAKER_00:No, I get what you mean. I think for me, I really like I love award season, man. I love award season because you get like a specially curated list of good movies. Get me like the award binge is is essentially just like getting the opportunities to just watch a lot of good movies that have come out throughout the year. And because of you know, streaming, you know, you don't have to pay as much for physical media, which is sad, but at the same time, it's it's like convenient to like be able to like have them on HBO Max, VOD, Amazon Prime, you know, just around you. So you know, I think last show guard is going to be something very interesting. I I will be surprised if Pamela Anderson wins for this, but I think that's I think this is I think outside of your more lead is pretty tough.
SPEAKER_02:I think I think Mikey should get it though, just because like I don't know. But like Demi Moore, she really I think she really did well in the substance. I think I like the substance so much because of the message I perceived from it, but like that's also like kind of like highly contentious. Like I feel like I've seen like a lot of discourse that has also kind of changed my mind on it. But like, I don't know if I'd say changed my mind, but I don't feel so strongly about convictions I had when I first watched it about the little commentary on age or how valid that is.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, you want to dive into that real quick? Give us a little rant.
SPEAKER_02:I don't know, like okay, um, what was I going to say? I feel like, you know, there are a lot of people that were kind of like criticizing the movie because it was kind of like, okay, like Demi Moore is playing this woman who is like struggling with her age or like aging essentially, because once she leaves, once she like turns 50, I guess, or let's just say she's in her 50s, like her studio doesn't want her anymore. So I don't know what to call him, let's say like her manager or whatever, kind of like replaces her with like a younger or wants a younger person to replace her, younger woman to replace her. And I think a lot of people like their problem with it was like Demi Moore, they kind of present her in a light, like when we're meant to look at her and see her as insecure, it was when she was aging. So is this really a commentary on like being proud of aging? If like, oh, okay, like her skin is not as like I don't know how to explain it. And also she doesn't look like most women at her age, like she's in her 60s. I think she like I think she's like in her early 60s or late 50s, and she doesn't look like most women that her age. So they're just like, who is this for? Because most women don't have those cosmetic procedures. Like, honestly, I didn't even know that she was her age. So I feel like a lot of people are just like that falls flat when you really look at it. And then, you know, there's a time like she stands in the mirror, like she's a slim woman. She's slim. That is. How am I meant to look at you? Am I meant to look at you with disgust, me as the viewer? And if so, at the end, because at the end of substance, you know, like she just keeps getting older and older. And yeah, it's more like vile reactions. And then some people are like, oh, but it's the reactions of the audience that makes the the message. I don't know about that. I mean, maybe, maybe not, you know. So I guess like it's just that. But for me, I felt at least when I first watched it, I was really sad when I watched it because I just felt like it was that kind of like, you know, the whole thing about like, you know, um, what's the word? Sorry if I'm if I'm dragging, but what's the word? There's this whole discourse on like when you just realizing you're your mother kind of thing. Yes. I feel like the young girl that um was Demi Moore's young counterpart that they're one or whatever. Margaret Coyle, yeah. Yeah, I think like, you know, there was a point where she killed Demi Moore and she was still trying to go out on stage and have her this thing, but then she realized she can't be her, like she would not be anything without Demi Moore. So I feel like a lot of like young girls, especially like if you're struggling like with certain whatever is with your mom, like you can't be. I mean, I don't know, you just have the realization one day, like, damn, I'd be nothing without you, you know? I don't know. Like those issues that older women have, you think it'll never be you, low-key.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And then it's not No, I I think I think you're absolutely right. But I think I do you think people have more compassion for when they realize they're similar to their mother or when they realize they're similar to their father.
SPEAKER_02:I don't know. I feel like me personally though, or you just talk about people. But me personally, I feel like I've really, I've really realized like I I am my parents. I'm literally like there's sometimes I do things I'm like, oh my god, you're my like you're literally your father's daughter. Like, I don't know why you be on his ass, like Loki. I mean, I don't know. Same with my mom, Jiga. So I think it it made me have more compassion. Like I I realized, like, you know, she's just a girl and like he's just a nigga. Like they're literally just ordinary people, like they're figuring it out. Like, so that's just my my whole thing on it. I've had more compassion for that reason for the older people I like.
SPEAKER_00:I I completely understand that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. But with age vanity and all, you I feel like it's definitely that like you you don't realize that'll be you.
SPEAKER_00:And yeah. I think the substance does a really good job of capturing just the panic and the panic involved with aging. And how sometimes coming to terms with the fact that you are simply aging might be better than the decisions you make when you're panicking and trying to prevent that aging from taking place.
SPEAKER_02:Right, yeah, exactly. I think that that's like one thing, especially like for women, like I feel like we have so many, like literally like so many things marketed to us to stop aging. And sometimes it's like you don't want to get into it. Like, that's one thing I've been like, oh, I'm not gonna use this. But then, you know, literally just the other day, like I used some caffeine solution under my eyes, you know, because it was pointed out to me that my eye bags are really getting this in. I started thinking about it that one day my eye bags are just gonna keep going. I'm gonna like, and I'm just like, girl, you're panicking. Like, I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:No idea what you're saying. I get what you're saying. Okay, so previously back. That was great stuff. It was great stuff. Previous and back to the episode. I don't know if it's gonna surprise you, but Demi War one outstanding leading actress for her role in substance of the Golden Globes.
SPEAKER_02:Oh who else was who else was contending against her for Golden Globes?
SPEAKER_00:I think it was pretty much the same list.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I don't remember.
SPEAKER_02:I feel like she has to go home with something. So maybe this one. Okay, she's out, she's out, then we should give Mikey.
SPEAKER_00:I think you should go listen to her speech. His her reception speech was pretty good. It's really good. People said that I actually boosted her stocks, you know, for the Oscars.
SPEAKER_02:She has stocks? No. Oh, never mind, never mind.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, just like the general.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I said that's something she was getting. I was like, why did she do that? That's crazy. Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's very funny. But yeah, I think very standoutly, you know, Cynthia Ever has been getting, you know, for Alphabet, Wicked has been getting a lot of norms, a lot of conversations. Well, I I'd say they're getting less norms than expected, but just the nods to like, hey, this is probably gonna win best picture or best is, which is what a lot of people are saying. I don't completely agree. A lot of the smaller awards are like saying are actually awarding other things. So I find that very interesting as well. But yeah, Pamela Anderson, her performance for this was a lot of people were talking about how good that was. And I think someone who is might be getting snubbed in the nominations is my Sheila Angina Julie. The performance in Maria was great, it was so great.
SPEAKER_02:Isn't it the recent one that came out with her lip singer? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It was uh Maria the opera singer, and just like again, biopic style. But I really enjoyed, or what I really noticed and I'm really enjoying, is like there's this kind of renaissance of the middle-aged actress in like high-profile films. So we have like Demi Moore, Pamela Anderson, Angelina Jolie, and was just seeing like that pretty significant career revivals.
SPEAKER_02:I was gonna say something, but I just remembered it's a picture, and so it's not like a meme you say, but it's this picture of this woman, and she's like her shirt says old bitches winning. You know what I'm talking about.
SPEAKER_00:I haven't seen that one, yeah. I feel like you you said that to be.
SPEAKER_02:But I just thought of it because I was just like, you know, okay, I already know like what the thought is for the last showgirl giga. And I think for that reason I'd also really like it. Like, I just I don't know, old bitches winning.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah, no, I I think you're absolutely right because, like, like I said, it's like significant career revivals, and you're receiving acclaim for a lot of roles that address ageism. And yeah, this is also like very much a nod to the industry's treatments of Asian actresses. Like, why does the best well Michelle Yoro was you know a little bit older when she won for everything everywhere all at once? But I feel like in a wild, like for it it had been like younger women.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But let's get back to the next one. We're going on to do outstanding performance by sporting male actors. We have Fiero, Jonathan Bailey, that is wicked. We have uh Yora Borisov who's doing Igor for Nora, Kirin Colkin, A Real Pain, Edward Norton is Peter Seeger in a Complete Unknown, and Jeremy Strong goes crazy in the abrestus. So what do you think? What do you think about that one?
SPEAKER_02:I don't I don't know about skipping wicked straight to Igor. Yeah uh I don't know. I thought it was a good performance, but you know the ending of Honora was like controversy. It was so controversial, like it was so controversial, and even up to now I can't tell you what like I fully feel about that. Like I don't I don't think I've necessarily come to terms with like the ending because low key I kind of hear everyone's side or what what they think about it. I don't know if you should I don't I don't know, and then I'm thinking about it like was it that outstanding? It was a good movie, it was a great movie. But I'm also like, was it that outstanding? I'm taking the outstanding whatever literally that's true, that's true, you know, Jeremy Strong bias here.
SPEAKER_00:Um crazy bias, crazy bias, uh you already know, like you already know.
SPEAKER_02:Um, I loved Succession so much. I think he's he's honestly just a great actor. So for that reason, and everybody I know really loved The Apprentice. So I'm just like, and also Sebastian Stan is cool. Why why wasn't he nominated?
SPEAKER_00:I don't I don't know for this one, because I genuinely think for two films. Oh, well, no, Sebastian Stan is the lead in The Apprentice, my bad. So he'd be he wasn't nominated for best lead performance, which makes sense. Yeah, so this is supporting role. So let me give you a bit more context because you know, typically the Globes predicts a sag, SAGs predicts Oscars. So or feeds into it, so we can just like use like a pattern. So for I believe supporting it was Kieran Colkin before a real pain. So Roman, no, who is what's his name? Forgotten his name in succession. Who are you talking about? Kieran Colkin. Roman? Jeez, is that Roman? Like his name is Roman, that's Roman, yeah. My bad. I don't know. I keep forgetting, I keep mixing up Roman and Logan, and I'm just like, what the fuck? Yeah, Logan is his dad. I know, I know, but I don't know. Like Brian Cox looks like his name would be Roman, not Logan.
SPEAKER_02:No, I think his name would definitely be Logan. And also, I'm also saying this because not to be somehow I'm going off topic, Loki. Nicki Minaj's alter ego, Roman. I feel like it really fits his character. I feel like it just sounds like I don't know, in the show he was so bitchy, and Nikki's alter ego was like very You just imagine Roman Roy just going, I'm not Jasmine, I'm Aladdin. Yeah. But like, is he Logan?
SPEAKER_00:Logan would never no, he would. I think if it pissed someone off, he would.
SPEAKER_02:I'm not just talking about being like mad, like really like, I don't know, I don't know. Fair enough.
SPEAKER_00:Fair enough. I get you. But I'm thinking, I don't know if you've noticed, if you've seen, but there's that scene going around on Twitter of Succession with the million dollar check to the boy if he hits a home run.
SPEAKER_02:He's so wicked, but the real person and all the the real villain was um not Greg.
SPEAKER_00:Um Tom. Tom, my bad. I why am I mixing up names? Yeah, it's Tom, Shiv's husband. Yeah, he was the dick. Because why would you get the kid out? Why would you get the kid out?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, people are saying, like, oh, like, you know, he played undercover, that he was actually the wicked person throughout that whole movie. I was like, I don't think so. I think he adjusted to the den of lions that he was around. I think he adjusted. Like he just had to assimilate his wife, was literally like, I honestly feel like Shib would have to be. They were a horrible time. They were a horrible time.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so I'm going with who I think would most likely win. So we're going to go three ways. I'm going to go likely winner, gonna go potential dark horse and maybe wild card. Are you ready? So likely winner, I really think it's Jeremy Strong. I really don't care what Kieran Culkin does, but I feel like it's Jeremy, like I'm so sorry. I feel like it's Jeremy Strong winning for this one. And I think the sag historically has voted for the more complex and challenging roles. And the thing is, Kieran Colkin is kind of just acting like himself in the real pain. He's bringing Roman Roy back on stage, and it's like, I don't think they appreciate that historically. Dark Horse, I think Edward Norton might win that one because they want to do a little bit of like, that's my homie, that's the guy, that's he's been here forever, he's the veteran. Do you get me? Jeremy Strong, you can you're still gonna have more chances to win.
SPEAKER_02:Do you think he'll have more chances?
SPEAKER_00:I think absolutely. I think absolutely Jeremy Strong will have more chances to win. I don't see, especially now the succession is up, I don't see any of his projects slowing down. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:That's I mean, that can be one thing, but you can be like in uh a lot of things and be nominated and nominated. That's what people were saying for not to go off, because I know we're talking about movies. For um, our guy from Better Call Soul, I don't think like, I mean, yes, he's got a few awards, but like for like big stuff and all, every he he's always nominated, but he never gets it. And people I think the problem is we see like compilations of it, it's like multiple, and everyone's like, oh, it's okay, like there'll always be a next one. That's true.
SPEAKER_00:I think he and I think he just I think he and the show like Better Call Soul is just not seen as its own entity, pretty much. Like people still look at it as a spin-off from Breaking Bad, and then I feel like that make they they look at it a little bit less. I know what you mean. It's like okay, like black lit blackish is a tolerable show. Mixed-ish, you're like, oh brother, uh yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So mixed-ish is about it's it's like yes.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, mixed-ish is their own, like okay Yes, yes. They sometimes interact. You mean we got a crossover character? But yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I actually I thought it was more of like a spin-off, spin-off. Like, I didn't think it was meant to be like its own. Okay. It's a it's a spin off. I get what you mean. I get what you mean about Better Call Saul, but like I feel like just me personally, I didn't see it that way. Like immediately this came out from episode one, I was like, this is his own man. I didn't even care to see Walter White. I didn't care about anybody. It was sometimes cool. Oh, I know who you are. No, it was pretty good. I actually didn't care. So yeah. Anyways.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think the last one would be my disappointing wild card pick, would most likely be Jonathan Bailey, Fafiro. Don't really. Really get why. Because first of all, first of all, I'm just seeing Bridgerton with a little bit more vibes. That's what I saw when I watched Wicked.
SPEAKER_02:I only looked at the just clips and I I mean that's just Misha. I will just be looking at Discord because I just love what people are saying about stuff. So but it didn't strike me enough for me to be like, I need to watch this or whatever.
SPEAKER_00:No, I get that. So SAG nominees for Outstanding Performance by a Female Actor in Supporting Role. This is probably the last one we're gonna cover. You then we're just going to talk about a better man and just wrap up that way. So we have Monica Barbaro, I believe. Yes.
SPEAKER_02:For which one?
SPEAKER_00:She's a complete unknown. She pays Joanne Bays, and her performance is actually one of my favorites in the film. Then we have Jamie Lee Curtis for Annette, and she's in The Last Showgirl. There is Danielle Deadweiler for Bernice. She plays in the piano lesson. That one's on Netflix. That is pretty good. A lot of people are loving that, especially with John David Washington returning to acting and doing a good job there. Ariana Grande as Galinda, Glinda in Wicked. And lastly, we have Zoe Saldana for Amelia Perez. What is your take? How are you feeling?
SPEAKER_02:Oh, see me asking you, what do you think?
SPEAKER_00:I think Zoe Saldana wins this again. I think she won the globes. I think Amelia Perez for some reason is doing a thing. And I think there is none of the supporting performances are strong enough or have enough campaign behind them to push it. I think Ariana could be surprising, but I don't know. I don't know. I feel like Ariana is especially because this is a peer award. I think Ariana might lose out because she hasn't really been part of the film industry. She is Ariana Grande from, you know, Nickelodeon and also. I mean she's from music, no, it's Ariana's.
SPEAKER_02:Did you see her in Victoria? She was killing it. Like she was killing Victoria's life.
SPEAKER_00:That's fair enough. But like, you know, she's not she hasn't been part of the film industry for a minute. So it's like, I don't think they're gonna give the newcomer. You get me? No, no, I'm sure you. Um but I think Dark Horse could 100% be Danielle Deadweiler. Really, again, complex, emotional, really great, really great film. And, you know, did a good job balancing like lighter, balancing this like dramatic because she's typically does a lighter and more comedic role.
SPEAKER_02:I'm just going over like, okay, who I know and what I think of them, and like more like discourse surrounding them and award season, right? I think Jamie Lee Curtis, they just shouldn't give her. They should just please like I feel like she gets a word, somebody will literally flip a flip a table, like um Ariana Grande. Yeah, like we don't love Ariana. She didn't do anything. Cool singer. Is it Zoe or Zoe?
SPEAKER_00:Uh Zoe Saldana.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Um, I don't think I've watched her in anything and thoughts she was so great. And when I saw the task for this, I was not moved. I actually made an admission, I'm not going to watch this movie. So for that reason, just as strict Irima bias, I'm not, I just don't think they should give her.
SPEAKER_00:You didn't love her in Nina Simone? I don't know. In what? Like as Nina Simone in the biopic. The Nina Simone Biopic, right? Are you crazy?
SPEAKER_02:See, you know something? You know, because we're gonna talk about Better Man, right? I have a bunch of biopics in my head, like because of that, and that was part of it, right? So thank God you brought that up. I didn't hear you saying Nina Simone earlier, but yeah. So even for that reason, she should not get this for that reason up to now. Like it should be enough to disqualify her. And let's see, let's see. Um I don't know who Monica is.
SPEAKER_00:I really like her in I really like her because recently I've I've gotten into Special Ops Lioness on Prime Man Plus, and that's pretty good.
SPEAKER_02:I I watched like the first um few episodes. I felt like it was imperialism being marketed to me, and I was liking it.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, it sells though, imperialism sells like crazy.
SPEAKER_02:It does. I there's this show um with this guy from the office that he was doing on Amazon Prime. Jack Ryan. Ah, that's what you're talking about, Jack Ryan. Jack Ryan was damn good.
SPEAKER_00:Oh my god. It had racist people being like, maybe Ira became bad.
SPEAKER_02:So I guess that was so funny.
SPEAKER_00:It was funny.
SPEAKER_02:Man, I was gonna say you see Top Gun.
SPEAKER_00:That was a little bit. I was in the cinemas going USA.
SPEAKER_02:That was actually bad epic. I think I think piano lesson just because it's a it's a black hast, like yeah.
SPEAKER_00:That's fair. That's fair. I think you should watch it. You should probably watch it. Yeah, it's on my list. It's on Netflix. It's on Netflix, so I think you should watch it soon. Okay, so now we are seguing, or we're doing, you know, little segue from Screen Actors Guilds, or it's let's jump into better man for the last couple of minutes. I also want to let you guys know, this is coming at the end. I'm so sorry, but this episode is going to be a shorter one. You know, we're gonna yap, then we're going to get the next full-length episode will be probably the next one. So thank you guys for being patient with us and introducing us to more of your friends. But yeah, let's go. A better man's an interlude.
SPEAKER_02:Would you consider would you consider this an interlude?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we could do that.
SPEAKER_02:No, continue. What were you saying? I was just saying this episode is an interlude compared to this.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's an interlude. Actually, I don't count it as an interlude. I feel like this is a I I like I feel like we do quality, not everything has to be an hour worth of I I would say content. It's or an or more than an hour. I feel like it's just depending on the quality of the episode. If you don't have much more than 45 minutes or to like, you know, 46 minutes of con of stuff to talk about, that's perfectly fine, mate.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but yeah, let's go. How did you feel about a better man?
SPEAKER_02:The thing is, right? I love that I walked into this movie blind. I love it. Because the first time that you told me, Oh, watch a better man, I was like, Oh, Sebastian Stan, and you're like, No, monkey man. I was like, Which monkey? I don't know any monkey movie that's coming out.
SPEAKER_00:No, because when you said Sebastian Stan, I was like, That's a different man.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So I was thinking of that. So I actually thought that I was even going to like follow up and be like, Oh, Ophelia, that's a different movie. I was even going to correct you because only for me to see it's a whole different movie. I really loved it. I love like movies that make me feel like there's like life is so simple, but we make it so complex. It's the little things that matter at the end. It's family, love, friends, your passions. Passions don't always have to be so little, but I feel like a lot of other things come with it that complicates it. Um I really liked it. I honestly gave it like the monkey thing. Well, it was a good move, like you said. Like, sure. Question mark. Now that I'm thinking about it, if a human being did that, I'm not sure. Because I feel like I would have been judging the acting, maybe if I wasn't too into it. That's the thing with biopics, right? Because I feel like with biopics, um, me and my friend were talking about it, and I'm just like, biopics usually sometimes they're really good, then sometimes they can just be disrespectful. So, like Zoe with Nino Simone, this guy from what's the word? You know, Black Sitcom, I love it. One-on-one. This is one of those shows, you know, Moisha, all of them that time. He plays Michael Jackson. This is a tall, dark-skinned man that they put powder on his face, and then he has a very deep voice. So imagine that person doing a light voice and how it comes across.
SPEAKER_00:That's funny.
SPEAKER_02:That's it was a mess of a movie. Do you get? But that's exactly what I mean. Like, I feel like biopics, like you know, we're always thinking of how that person really bodied the role. Like, they have to make me forget that they're um what's the word? That they're playing somebody. Exactly. So I feel like this really did a good job. And the biopics I usually love, there are a lot of great ones out there, and some that I've even watched by Noah are great, but a lot of the biopics I have in my head, the specifically black ones. Interesting. So like Angela Um Bassett as Tina Turner, or Jamie Foxx as what's this guy's name?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, Jeremy Foxx is uh Ray Charles. That one took me out because I think I completely I think when I was younger, I I genuinely thought like that was Ray Charles. That's the one. No, he did.
SPEAKER_02:That's what I'm saying. Like, so this one, the monkey, I was like, Yes, that's I guess I'm feeling like the monkey was real. Anyways, I sent you some of our discussions because Yes, we did. Yeah, what do you think?
SPEAKER_00:I think the approach was very inventive. Like I said, I I put a four-star, and one of the first things that I said in my leather box review is that yes, unfortunately, the monkey thing works. It fucking works. It works I get what they were trying to do on two fronts. I get that some of the surrealism stuff that they're doing, where you know, that scene specifically where he's fighting himself and he's fighting his demons, and it's onto like a Royal Rumble style, kill everything around you to conquer your demons thing. It would doesn't work if it's a human being. And it's easier to point out that as very shit CGI, if you try and use like a regular person, then you might have to like if you're trying to go for the same kind of surrealism, the best you can get is like Scott Pilgrim vs. the world kind of vibes, which is very cartoony and it's very early 2000s, so people don't love it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Then, you know, right now there's also the other side where it's like it's a metaphor for his self-perception and like pressures of fame, essentially him just being like, you know, a little show monkey. He's doing a little dance on stage. You know, no one cares about him and how he feels, but he's doing the dance on stage for like for the crowds, for the masses.
SPEAKER_02:For me, I just thought if they played, like got some white boy to do this, you know, there are multiple scenes where like you're saying, um, he's he's wrestling with himself, so he sees himself in the crowd and yeah, like his they're telling him like he's not shit, blah blah blah. I feel like if they got like you know, another white boy to play him, I would have been lost. I I wouldn't have known he was talking to himself because that's true. I'm not saying all white people look alike. I'm just saying, honestly, like I just feel like I wouldn't have really the monkey thing was just unique, it really made him stand out.
SPEAKER_01:It was so fucking unique.
SPEAKER_02:It was so unique, yeah. So I really liked it. I really liked it. And again, like just because like if you pick an actor or something, it was like something that comes to mind. See, yeah, black Bile Bix. Beyonce has Edda James. I love Cadillac records, but I just felt like wow, Beyonce can sing. Like I kept thinking Beyonce is bringing me to tears. I didn't really think this is this is like Edda James. Like, wow, I'm watching Edda James.
SPEAKER_00:That's fair. Okay, what about the emotional depth of the film? Because I think that's another thing that people talk about. I think you said you cried.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it was a lot, it was a lot. I think um, number one, damn, forgive your parents, man. Sometimes I'm not that person. But I was like, I didn't want him to forgive his dad, but it's weird because as I was watching the relief I felt as well, yeah when he called his dad for the final scene. Yeah, it was so much, and I think it immediately made me reflect on like again, we're talking about parents, and I just we just did it with the substance. This one again, I feel like because me, I was like, please, like, don't even call your dad on stage, don't give him that satisfaction, blah blah blah blah. But then I also realized like I guess it's it's bigger than that, and this is still someone that he looked up to and does owe a lot. Um and that's regard. And for me, I was literally holding my breath. And when when they're on stage, like my heart just I don't know, it was hard. I think I think um watching him struggle with addiction as well. Yes, was very hard, was a very hard watch. I just think generally with biopics and everything, watching someone else's life, you start to see I mean, any form of art, um, as human beings, we can always relate as just the human condition. Giga, so you always hit after home. So when his grandma was like going through dementia, I was literally begging him, midfield, please go home. Go and see him, go and pick up the phone and call her. Yeah, I was getting so annoyed. Giga, I was like, family is what matters, all of this doesn't matter. Like, yeah, that's I don't know. So that was that was me. That was just me. And you knowing me, you know, I think we're talking on the on the this thing, but I wouldn't be able to put that to words.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, Giga. No, I get what you're saying. I think for me, it was very much so fuck, it was it was emotional, it was really good. It was really good, and again, the monkey thing worked specifically in that scene where we saw him with heroin. Do you get me? Yeah, and like the surrealism that he's melting into the floor, the the water is rising up. And like, I'm not gonna lie, I again I really enjoyed the different phases of his life and the monkey having like different haircuts and different styles, his face is growing, all of that. Let me stop talking about the monkey. Let me stop let me leave the monkey alone.
SPEAKER_02:But I also like that. Oh, sorry.
SPEAKER_00:Go on.
SPEAKER_02:No, I was just gonna say, like, I really like the different phases because it made me think about how we judge ourselves so harshly in different phases of our lives, and then we move on and kind of like always want them back. Like, oh, I look better this time, or I was much smarter this time, or I had so much time that time, she gets, and it's like all of your individual use of different phases coming against you.
SPEAKER_00:Gets no, I get what you're saying. Yes, yes, because that fight that makes sense. I didn't think about it that soon in that sense, but like it makes sense. I'm thinking now also, like I really, really enjoy the depiction of like all the battles, man. Like, yeah, there's that one big battle where you know he's fighting essentially his those demons, and you know, he has to triumph over them, you know, triumph over self-doubt, the depression, the addiction. And I I really think he gets better immediately, he beats them, but it's not that easy. Yeah, it's not that easy, and I think that's what it shows you like throughout the film that it's a very hard road. Like the addiction, the mental health challenges, it's incredibly hard. And it was so emotional. And I think it was so interesting because that same day we were talking about how he wasn't she wasn't a single mother. She he kind of abandoned well, technically wasn't the original sense of single mother, like you know, he abandoned later on. But we we had a conversation about how like Aaron's fathers always kind of get like a second lease of life when they come back. You get me? Like, we we give them some praise, we always give them grace.
SPEAKER_02:I was unwanted, you know, like literally that's I was also mad that I felt relief because I was like, no, like this deadbeats, but then again, it was it was about him.
SPEAKER_00:So no, I get it, I get it, because like we were just talking about it, and in my head it was stuck, and I was so upset because I'm like, why don't you call your mom all stage, bro? Like, fuck your dad, like call your mom, and it made me so sad.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, I was going to say something and I forgot, like it was literally something. So it's a biopic about Robbie Williams, right? Yes, British pop star and all. But the thing is, I knew so many of those songs, but I I cannot pick that man out from anywhere. If it was to stand in front of me, I'm telling you, I wouldn't know.
SPEAKER_00:I'm going to let you send out something.
SPEAKER_02:So, what did you think about that? If they told me the monkey made that song, I'd have been like, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I think half of wait, did you stay till the end and see like the pictures of him on screen? Like that was really fun, and how they matched the monkey in the different phases. I was like, that's that's impressive. But for me, yeah, I think a lot of it was the music. I think I I struggled to just like to decipher which ones were covers and which one, of course, like the Frank Sinatra one was a cover. Well, what were covers and what were songs by him because I didn't know his music as much. And this is also very interesting. I really don't think the conversation, like the general public discourse right now has been doesn't make as much sense to me. I'm not going to lie to you. Saying we don't know Robbie Williams, so while we go watch his movie, I'm like, I know a lot of people that didn't know. Yeah, like this is such a lie. Like, I know a lot of people that did not know Oppenheimer.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you, me, Seth. Where'd that know him from?
SPEAKER_00:I think we can be honest and say, okay, yes, the monkey thing threw me off. Made me not really want to watch it. Cool. Let's say that.
SPEAKER_02:Then, oh, who even knows this guy? Somebody now posted like the out of like just like there was this um part when he first joined Take That the band, and all of them were dancing. Also, the thing is, right? This this was a musical, but they did it so well. They did it so I feel like it wasn't like musical, like, I don't know, like it was more like transitioning into eras, it wasn't like random breakouts into song. I don't know. It was like when he found love, there was a song for love, there was a song for grief, there was a song for excitement. I was like, moving on, so yeah, but something took it when like him and the band were dancing, and they were like, Why do I want to watch a bunch of monkeys dancing? Mind you, it's just one monkey.
SPEAKER_00:It's just one yes.
SPEAKER_02:Let me see it, like, let record that was one monkey. I don't want to say something like multiple.
SPEAKER_00:I said that tweet about how I really wish that there was one person that like saw he was a monkey and was like, Wait, what? Because I feel like that would have been such a funny.
SPEAKER_02:Like they all recognize he's a monkey, that's why that he's different. But then I realized it wasn't even that. Like, it was not even that, like they're just being dicks. I don't think they really like I feel like it's the monkey thing was for the audience more than that little one.
SPEAKER_00:No, absolutely. Yeah, I thought it was like Stuart Little, what everyone knows, everyone in the universe knows that he's not in his mind.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's also why when I entered the movie, and when I entered the movie, I entered it with my friend, and she was like, I'm going to kill you. Do you know that's because we're watching a baby monkey, I don't know, fighting for his life and singing. I was like, okay, you know. Then he's like, Well, I don't know, but uh I liked it. I really, I really liked it, and I was like, This monkey is so cool. Like, I don't know, like if the monkey was just his own person, but Robbie Williams and also, okay, so did you see because no, I didn't see my friends saw it, but you know, she decided to Google whatever, and his song was nominated for one of the songs in the movie. Let me see. Oh, it was nominated for what?
SPEAKER_00:That's what I'm asking.
SPEAKER_02:I think it was which one does original soundtrack something. Well, I think it was Oscar's, but basically it was nominated but then disqualified.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, that's a change.
SPEAKER_02:He was apparently very upset about it, and we were like, uh-uh, it's still they fine, it's still they compete. Calm down now. I thought we just watched you. Maybe it's wrong with us. I'm not saying you should not be upset, but I was just like, ah, but I cried. Please, I actually cried. I was so sad. I really cried. You didn't cry? I didn't.
SPEAKER_00:I didn't. I I was still pretty shocked till the end of the movie about how much I enjoyed the monkey thing and how much I enjoyed the movie. So I think the shock and just the just the general enjoyment just let me it just take me it took me out of being like that emotional. And I think another thing that maybe the unintentionally, because there was a talk, there was a I don't remember what show that he went on, I think it was like Graham Norton or something like that. But he talked about it might not be Graham Norton, my bad. The way he decided the monkey thing was that the director came to him and was like, Hey, what's your spirits animal? And initially he was talking about, yeah, he wants us to be bold, he wants us to be strong, and he said, a lion, and the director was like, What's what's the real answer? And he was like, maybe a chimp. And that's when he fucking chose the monkey.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. Um, do you think a lion could have done this though?
SPEAKER_00:I don't think a lion could have done this. This is not sing.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Like this is not sing or sing too. Get out of here.
SPEAKER_02:That was good. I really enjoyed it. Obviously, 10 out of 10 movie. Um I also like the fact that there were parts where I really disliked him. Like, there are parts I really disliked.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. Despite him being a monkey, it was very human in the way that like you do things that I would not like. So when they kicked him out of the band for his behavior, I was like, okay, yeah, I I back that. Like, I'm so sorry. I I love that you're the protagonist, but if I had a coworker that was like you that I was working on a team with, I'd fucking hate myself. So it was insane.
SPEAKER_02:Oh also wait, that scene where he was wearing that fat bumper thing, and him and that guy were arguing, and then in the best friend of the squeezing, yeah. It was so funny to me. I actually started laughing. And I was like, wow, they're doing all this with a monkey. I love that.
SPEAKER_00:I love that too.
SPEAKER_02:That was that's what I have for that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's that's what I have for this as well. Really enjoyed the better man, especially with you know, the monkey thing just makes sense. Like I think it represents like the dehumanizing aspects of fame, and it's okay if people just don't like it or find it confusing, or why would you do that? I think it serves a purpose and it does it, it does it well. It's not completely unnecessary. Does it well? And it's also, I just want to say it's also very British. It's so fucking British. His dad and I love that as well. Yeah, his dad's a fan of his family to go watch a United game. That's so fucking British. Then the amount of jerseys that are in the drugs that they're using, Nebworth, nobody cares about fucking America, no one's talking about any of that or any other country. They're just so British. It's stoke on trends to the end, and I love it.
SPEAKER_02:I'm asking you a question. Can I ask it? Yeah, okay. So if monkeys lived in a society like normal and we're just another race, would you marry a monkey? I don't think so.
SPEAKER_00:I don't I wanna get that into Yeah, I don't I don't I don't think I don't know. Wow, that's fucked up. That's that's not I don't like that, especially because you were like they're just another race. I'm like, oh wow.
SPEAKER_02:That's I mean, okay, by just another race, I just mean like you see the way we saw this um monkey as like the Just by the person.
SPEAKER_00:No, no, just get out of here. I can't answer this, man. I can't like uh wow, this is racist as hell. This is racist. Yeah, it's gonna be racist.
SPEAKER_02:Me personally, me personally, I would.
SPEAKER_00:Fair enough. I feel like you've got to socialize around them and like you know, there's nothing wrong. I see them as just the same as us. That's what I mean.
SPEAKER_02:That's what I mean. It's I mean, or at least I mean they might be different, but they're still us.
SPEAKER_00:It's fair enough, but I I just yeah, yeah, we'll see, man. I'm not gonna answer that, but I really hope you hope you have a great day.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I had a lot of fun. This is really fun.
SPEAKER_00:Of course, of course. Yeah, so ladies and gentlemen, this has been another episode of the Cinephile's I.O. Thank you so much. This episode should be coming out to you soon. We're gonna have a great time editing this and releasing this and covering. We should have at least one or two more episodes for the sacks, then we're going to roll into Oscar's and Oscar's conversations. Thanks so much, and I hope you guys had a great great time listening to us. All right.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you.
SPEAKER_00:Bye.
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