Episode 21: "THE BRUTALIST" feat. Misgana

It's not everyday you get to see an epic picture so enthralling like THE BRUTALIST, so of course Steve and Ofili had to return to cover all things related to the latest true American classic. Joined by Misgana, the trio discuss the period drama's central themes of immigration and identity (7:15), how the film lives in service of Judaism (19:35), and clashes of sexuality and power (32:25). Finally, looking forward to the Oscars, TCA touch on the use of generative AI in film (55:30) and how this affects Adrien Brody and filmmaker Brady Corbet. TCA Verdict: 8.3/10

Transcript

Welcome to another episode of The Cinephile's Aisle.

It's been a long time since I sat there.

I feel like I wasn't here for the last episode.

I was here for the one before that, but I wasn't here for the last one, so I've missed you guys a lot.

Well, how are we doing today?

We're doing great.

I was thinking you've been missing two paws right now, right?

Yeah, I think your last one was Conclave.

Yeah, and then you were in there for that, and then you were in there for the recent one.

Yeah, Better Man one.

Yeah, I wasn't here.

And you, Ofili, how are you doing?

Doing pretty good.

Yeah, we're here today to talk about THE BRUTALIST, so I'd say it's not a good one.

But we're doing a lot of movies, a lot of movies to watch, it's awesome to hear.

Yeah.

But what have we been watching in that time?

Because I feel like this part of the year is always packed, because everyone's trying to see whatever picture is going to get nominated for best picture and all the really good films come out in the fourth quarter of the year and they're all limited release and then they get all, like they all expand around the same period.

So, you know, they hit the assets at the same time.

So everyone's trying to watch everything at the same time.

What have you guys been watching?

I've been watching a lot of romance movies.

Funny enough.

Romance?

Yeah.

It's been fun just taking it easy.

I feel the opposite of what you feel.

I feel like there aren't any movies and theaters that spike my interest except like Nickel Boys.

I mean, the one with SZA and that seems fun, but I'm going to wait.

I think it will be much more enjoyable to watch from the couch.

But yeah, I don't think like there are any movies that are in theaters right now that I would watch again.

I think that's because you've seen them all.

I think because you've seen the good ones.

Because I went to the theater twice in the last three days because I haven't seen any of them until I want to see them, and I feel like they're packed, and I feel like I should go again tomorrow because I haven't seen.

Like Nickel Boys is playing, Brutalist is playing.

Sing Sing is playing.

Sing Sing is playing.

The Complete Unknown is playing.

Last Showgirl is playing, and I haven't seen any of these.

So I had to stack up.

I think I've watched all, if not half of the ones you mentioned.

But yeah, I've been watching Hindi movies, Indian movies, Bollywood.

It's been fun.

Yeah.

It's been fun.

What have you been watching Ofili?

I'm actually just going through my letterbox.

I feel like I've been in the theater, you know, we're on like week three of the year.

So I've watched a movie in the cinema like every day.

Well, honestly, from like that Christmas week, I've watched a movie every day.

Because I remember watching Baby Girl, Christmas Day, then a Complete Unknown, the next day, then North Bharati.

That New Year is week, week after that, I got the advanced screening for Better Man, then week after that, which was this last week, Brutalist.

So I've been watching quite a bit.

I feel like I'm also logging a lot more on my letterbox than I previously been doing.

But I think so far, I must, I think my most favorite watcher so far is probably Baz Luhrmann's Morning Rouge.

Yeah, that one or I do March.

The, that's the Ryan Gosling and George Clooney thing.

Taking a page out of Misgana's book of like, it's like watching movies that came out when you were much younger.

But now that you're an adult, you're looking at it with different eyes.

Very drastic change.

I also watched Dallas Buyers Club as well, again, because that was on Netflix.

And I was like, very drastic change in how like, I see Jared Leto's character from when I was younger.

And I watched it now.

But yeah, real Cinephile Aisle.

Cinephile Aisle is, we're going crazy.

Yeah, I feel like for me, for some of those, so I saw Girl Strip, not younger, but because Girl Strip came out when we were in college.

But then I saw it again this year, and I gave it a five-star the very first time I saw it.

And then I saw it again this year, and I'm like, this is nowhere near a five-star.

You know what I mean?

But at the same time, I felt whatever pushed me or compelled me then didn't change.

Like I changed.

So I didn't feel the need to knock it down to, usually when I rewatch something like a lot older, I saw Akilah and the Bee, and I didn't have Letterboxd the first time I saw that.

But in my head, it was a perfect film.

So when I saw Akilah and the Bee again, I'm like, this is still a perfect film for me at that age.

I'm just going to keep it that way.

If anything, I find something that underscores the way I felt early on, and I just stick with it.

I don't like knocking something down too much just because I know more, because in essence, the film didn't change.

That's fair.

That's how I feel about Braveheart.

I can't watch it again because it's so perfect in my mind.

I don't care if it's a terrible film, not so great of a film.

It was great when I watched it for the first time, and I don't want to change it.

You don't want to change it.

That is fair.

Yeah, I get that for sure.

I think specifically about Braveheart, I was listening to Amazon Prime, they have the new Jeopardy TV show, and it has Colin from SNL.

Is it SNL?

I don't fucking know.

But basically, they keep doing, one of the segments that I watched was like, Quartz from movies.

And I was so upset that I got everyone but the Braveheart one.

So that just like ticked me off.

Yeah.

I know it's like the start of the speech, like the Mel Gibson speech.

So I was like, yeah.

So maybe I need to go watch some Braveheart again.

It's a great film.

It's a great film.

Yeah.

Today, like Ofili said, we'll be talking about The Brutalist.

Before I saw this, I had texted Ofili and said, you know, this feels like Nomadland in the sense that we're following a lead and going on a journey ahead.

But I saw this and it has absolutely nothing to do with anything about Nomadland.

But like Brutalist is a period drama.

It starts from the 40s and then ends in the 60s, I believe, like 47 to 1960.

And it's about this Hungarian, this Jewish-Hungarian guy, László Tóth.

And he flees Hungary during the war and arrives in America.

And we're following him as he journeys to, well, not America, just Pennsylvania.

And following the American dream and settling down, and quote-unquote, eventually becoming a big piece of Brutalist architecture.

And that's what the film is about.

I don't live under a rock, right?

If you haven't, if you've been on the internet, then you know that this is the lead runner, the forerunner for Best Picture.

So I went in, and I hate seeing films that way.

Like I hate seeing films knowing what other people already think about this.

And like, because it almost feels like people want me to think this is good.

So I really, really don't like that.

I like to like see films as they come out.

So I don't go in with like other people's expectations and stuff, but it was impossible to avoid it.

Like I hadn't seen it.

It wasn't an alpha expanded release.

It was limited release.

So I knew like it already won the Golden Globes Best Picture.

So I knew it was meant to be good.

So I went in expecting to be like, wow, to be blown away.

But then the whole time I'm there, I'm like, it feels like the filmmaker is just paying an ode to like old filmmaking style.

Like it looks, it feels like they were taking techniques from films that came away before, you know, we were born or like around the time when we're just growing up.

And it wasn't necessarily wowing me.

It wasn't like blowing me away, but then I stuck with it and I trusted it.

And the performances were really strong.

The script was really strong.

And I didn't know if it at the, okay, I see what it is.

Like I don't mind.

I'm not angry if this one's best picture, but how did you guys feel?

I regret not watching it the first time around when it came out because it was sold out.

I tried to watch it the first day it came out to every theater and I didn't watch it at AMC because I wanted to get the 70 millimeter experience.

Yeah.

I was excited, but I didn't know what to expect.

I didn't watch the trailer.

I didn't watch the trailer.

I went in.

It felt like, you know, because we have the same stories, Tim, of immigrating from another country.

It felt like an immigrant story.

And it felt like, you know, what you experience as an immigrant to another country.

I was, okay, I didn't know about the intermission, and I didn't want to tell you guys, because I wanted to you guys to find out.

Like I was like, did you guys watch it?

And then I was like, I'm not going to say, because somebody, one of my mutuals on Instagram posted, oh, there's an intermission.

I'm like, no, like, let people find out.

But I liked how it was shot.

I think as a film lover, like a cancer film lover felt like it was shot in like, like you said, the nineties, with a film camera, not a digital camera.

I like the non-forkingness of it.

Yeah.

Because it made it seem real.

I like the greenness with the film.

Yeah.

I love the greenness.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But the first part, I felt like it was great.

Right?

Okay.

I love the first part.

The second part, I watched it with someone.

And this person watched it the first time.

I literally looked at them and I was like, is this, is this happening?

And he was like, yeah.

And I was like, I was like, what?

Like, there was like two instances where I looked at him and I was like, tell me this is, this is not happening.

I mean, he didn't say anything, but like his face did.

And I was like, oh my God.

No.

Yeah.

I think it was a great poem.

Kind of felt inspired after walking out, you know, like to strive harder to not to shine in front of others, but more so like do your best and tenacity of it all.

But yeah, it was a great film to some degree.

To some degree.

Yeah, Ofili, you?

I think it was pretty good.

I think I can't take that away from them.

Really enjoyed.

I feel like it's controversial, but I kind of felt like the second half of the film had a little bit more emotional depth than the first half for me.

So I feel like I'm one of the only people that prefer like post-intermission.

Yeah, post-intermission.

Intermission concept was amazing because as a guy that goes to watch plays and like, you know, musicals, like intermission comes, you stretch your legs, you go talk to other people.

It's typically like long form content you get like you break makes sense.

But in cases of like other films like Killers of the Flower Moon, The Irishman, Oppenheimer wasn't this long.

But like other long films, like you don't really get a break and like, I really don't like the way directors act when you criticize the length of a film.

I remember Osezi has this long thing about sitting down, binging TV shows, where we can sit for about three, four hours for a movie.

I'm like, it's not the same thing at all.

Like those seats are pretty uncomfortable.

It doesn't matter if you're in AMC Prime, you're tired of being stuck there.

You can't really make noise, you can't really move around, you can get a snack or else you're missing important things.

So I think the intermission honestly was beautiful, made the film feel like two, like one hour, 45 minute batches, like it was pretty good.

Now I'm jumping into the actual film.

Really enjoyed it.

I, it's kind of interesting because like I think I knew about brutalism architecture.

I knew about its popularity.

I thought this was going to be biopic style.

I thought it was a real person until like halfway into the movie where, because I went to school in Pennsylvania and like, I was like, no, Doyle's town.

But at the same time, I feel like I would know about like a massive project like this.

I like, I'm not saying that I would know everything that happened in like the fucking 40s and 50s, but I feel like it would still be something very reverent because even in the concept of what we're talking about, the scale was insane.

Yeah, it was.

Yeah.

So yeah, so that was interesting.

Like finding out that there is a Laszlo Toth, but he's a geophysicist.

So it's not the same brutalist guy.

Yeah, that was also very random.

What else?

I felt like I enjoyed how real the film felt.

There were parts of the film that I definitely didn't agree with, like certain themes that were used.

And we can explore that later on.

I would say I agree with Steve.

I rather watch swimming not knowing it was a contender for best picture.

And that it had one Golden Globes, because you slightly watch the film with a bit of bias.

There's a bit of a disservice that you offer to the film by watching it with expectation that it's going to be a great film, instead of you just letting it be a great film.

I feel like when we talked, well, I feel like the discourse around Gladiator was that.

It was built up to be a great movie, then it falls short.

Whereas if we all just like watch Gladiator, it's like, oh, yeah, there's Gladiator 2 in cinemas, let's go watch it.

I feel like we would have all had a much better time than being like, oh.

Yeah.

So this is what all the buzz is about, like this is weird.

But generally, I think BRUTALIST, I think at the end of the day, I put it four stars for it.

Still a really great movie, but out of Barr, Emilia Perez, out of all the best picture nominees that I have watched, it definitely ranks third or fourth.

I'm not gonna lie.

Really?

Yeah.

BRUTALIST?

Yeah, for me.

It definitely ranks third or fourth.

I think just to recap it, I have it in my notes, so just give me a quick second to look at it.

But this is just generally how I feel.

And I think I wrote in the group chat as soon as I got out of the film.

And you know, everyone had like a reaction, you know, but I think it had like a very impressive production design.

The score was gorgeous.

A lot of striking scenes, some of them were too long.

I don't know how many times we needed to look at the real tracks, especially when he was not really on a train that frequently.

Like not going to lie.

But I genuinely feel like the in service of a narrative, I felt very disconnected.

I felt like it stacks its deck with a lot of ideas that don't fully materialize into anything that's truly compelling.

And it just kind of like left me feeling a bit disappointed.

I was like, okay, like I, like there's a lot of things here and we can see the amount of effort here.

But at the same time, it's just like, okay, I felt more connected when I have very little understanding of the intricacies of being a sex worker.

I felt like I was in the trenches with Annie.

Conclave, again, I feel like it's been a while since I've been to church.

I felt like I was campaigning for Cardinal was right there.

And I was like, this is not how we do it.

Like this is not the power dynamics.

So like I think like, I think it was a great movie.

I do not think it was the next best picture or best picture contender.

And quite honestly, I really didn't like the message that it gave in regards to the immigrant side of things.

I understand the architecture was not as core as like, you know, the immigrant story and like Lazlo's Journey.

The film is about Lazlo's Journey at the end of the day.

It is, yeah.

And I just, I didn't like the takeaway at the end.

You get me?

But we can dive into that a little bit.

Let's actually start from there.

What did you think?

What was your take away at the end of it?

When his cousin, I mean niece gave the speech?

Not that end.

That felt like a, that speech, it felt like a, okay.

Okay.

The real end of the film for me was his wife in the hospital.

After having an episode and he ends up giving her, and I don't want to talk about it for the listeners, like that's a very key scene.

It's very emotional.

Then he starts talking about going to the motherland, like going home.

And even in the film, like we have like one of the earliest scenes in the first half of the movie, we have one of the most popular speeches given and it's the United Nations address with the declaration of Palestine as the home for Israel.

Yeah.

It's made by the Israeli prime minister, I forget what his name is, but it's the first Israeli prime minister at the time.

I don't know what his name is, but I just felt like it was definitely a sort of, like the film at itself, I felt like it serves as a love letter to where it's like kind of Judaism and just like a more united central Jewish identity.

Because this is it.

It is, we immigrated to this land that was, and it made us do unholy, unclean things.

Then we need to go home to our true home, where we will not be hurt, we will not be taken advantage of.

And I just felt like that was not really the best of messages regarding the decisions that Laszlo made multiple times during the film, or the reluctance to take certain steps by other people in the film.

Yeah, and a very fun fact, like Pennsylvania, Illinois, I have always lived near a Van Buren street.

So that is very fun.

Like that was very random, yeah.

I think a lot of people, I feel like you're even being, I hear what you're saying and it feels like you're even saying it in a nice way.

Because there's a bunch of people in Letterboxd, on Twitter, going as far as calling the film Zionist, based on similar trips to Warrior Saint.

And I think I saw this review that said the film basically attempts to vinylize Attila, because he is the guy who married the sheiksa, which is the traditional Gentile.

And he doesn't speak his language unless until the point, he only spoke his language when he was mad at Lazdo, and like telling him, get away from my, you know, you ruined my business, da da da da da.

It's almost like he's trying to subdue his culture, and he's becoming, he's presenting as more American, but also less Jewish in order to fit in.

And the film is making him out to be one of the villains.

And then like you fast forward to part two, when he's giving that monologue, when he's yelling and he's saying...

Yeah, the speech in the car.

Yeah, the speech in the car, exactly.

These people don't want us here.

These people don't want us here.

Exactly.

So I think I've seen people say that, and I see why they're drawing at the Zionist ropes or Judaism-centered.

I felt for me, and I don't know, maybe this is probably influenced by recent happenings.

Because again, I've seen a few Jewish-centered, like we just had zone of interest, we just had a real pain, and we're getting there.

So I think it's a topic that is not going away.

We're just paying more attention to it now.

This isn't the first film where it's tried to paint people opposing them in an anti-Semitic way.

I just feel like we're paying more attention to it because it's more culturally relevant now.

Laszlo made those bad choices, right?

Laszlo was the one that got himself into that.

And then him running back to Jerusalem wasn't supposed to...

I did not take it to mean Jerusalem is the Holy Land.

I made these bad choices because I was in the US.

No, I took that from the film to be...

No, Laszlo, that's a Laszlo problem.

He's self-sabotaging.

He's like too goal-oriented, right?

That he's willing to do whatever.

He's willing to make like whatever terrible choices along the way, just to get him to that point that he wants to get to.

And so for me, the end really is the epilogue when she says that, you know, don't listen to others, the destination, not the journey.

And to me, that's really the end because that's how he's lived his life.

That's how he's, you know, he's done his journey.

And that's why, I don't know, I just didn't, I didn't feel it was Zionist or it was trying to be, you know, but I see why people say that.

No, I'm not like disagreeing.

I just, I see why, like people say that.

No, I think that's fair enough, but I was sorry, I was gonna go because I really wanted to hear.

No, because you had hinted at something in like, in the discourse after the film.

So I want to hear what you have to say specifically about that destination, not journey thing.

I think it's, I think maybe he has lived his life to reach, like I think his, Lazaro's like thing to, to doing everything is because like, his architecture is everything to him.

And his wife is like important to him, but I think his architecture is like far more important.

And you can see that on different levels.

But I think him saying, these people don't want us here.

It's not to say that like, maybe like, you know how people come from like other countries and they are living a rich life and then they come to the United States and then you have to lower yourself.

Like it's more of that than him saying like, oh, I don't want, like he was important.

He was published.

He was important where he was.

I think we're definitely on the same page.

Yeah, now he's coming to America and having to like answer to people that don't give a fuck about him, for lack of better words.

And also he's being second guest with the architecture that he's doing, where there's a designer coming in with new things to add to the thing.

And the other guy is like okay with it and has to be accommodating to the needs to a point where he says, I'll pay for it, I'll pay for it.

Because architecture was important.

If his wife was important, I would say he would have thought a little bit before he said, yeah, take my money.

Like, you know what I mean?

Because he is technically the provider of the family.

But yeah, I definitely agree with your point.

I think another point where it's highlighted, and this like keys back into Steve's point as well earlier, is when he's with Atilla, his cousin, he almost scoffs at the fact that he changes his name.

He doesn't go by Mola, he goes by Miller.

And it's a very big, it's a very key thing within the film where, and I think it's also in the immigrant identity.

When you have been there for some time and you know, there is a, you learn to adapt, you learn to change, to fit in into the society.

Whereas newer immigrants would sometimes scoff at having to change themselves in any way within this foreign land.

And they sometimes have that same expectation that who they were in their past life should carry over here to this foreign people.

And there is a sense of pride that like does not, like Lazlo is clearly showing, he even talks about how he cannot look like a beggar in front of his people while he's, he's queuing up for food and he cannot eat.

He's sleeping in homeless shelters, but there is this pride.

He's not buckling his pride.

Like, do you understand what I mean?

And like, I understand that at the end of the day, he still survives.

He still thrives.

Yeah.

But at what cost?

I understand like, Laszlo himself is probably meant to be a metaphor for brutalism architecture as itself, because it's just like a focus on that survival disregarding, disregarding what may happen.

So that is wars, that is your trials, that is whatever happens to you, your building will still stand, because it is solid, it is uncompromising, it is stubborn.

So I get that.

And I guess like it's also like, like it's meant for a function and it's simple.

And we can describe that to Laszlo because his function, unfortunately, was not family, was not building a better life, it was grating brutalist architecture, was grating buildings that would stand.

And that's why we see him neglect his family, neglect his wife.

He has no problem neglecting his wife and shutting her out, or he has almost no problems.

Like whenever he's out of the grasps of Harrison and the Van Buren family, he goes back.

Because that is his chance to, I think it might just be like a big pride legacy thing as well.

So I find the film very interesting.

I think, like I said, it's great, but I think a lot of it just doesn't resonate with me, which is interesting because I feel like a lot of lots of immigrant stories, they resonate with me.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think it's very, thank you for highlighting that, he is a metaphor for Brutalism architecture.

Because I was going to talk about how, like after watching the film, I thought it was very brilliant that the film was called THE BRUTALIST, even though I don't recall the film mentioning Brutalism.

At any point until maybe in the epilogue.

But it hit me after the end with the whole destination journey thing, because it's called THE BRUTALIST.

And early in the film, he talks about how that building, whatever, erosion or rain and the war and things will fall, but his building will stand and it will last a test of time, which he just literally said.

And that is him.

Like he will, he has gone through things, you know, homeless shelters, begging, literally like was assaulted, drug use or drug abuse and all of that.

But at the end of the day, like he was still, quote unquote, kicking, you know, he was still standing and you can liken that to his buildings or the work that he makes or the work that he's made.

So I thought, and I thought it was brilliant that the final part, like after Harrison, you know, we don't know if he killed himself, but we think he killed himself.

He just disappeared.

Oh, okay.

It's like in a, I didn't even notice it, but if you watch it the second time, you can hear them saying, we found a body.

Oh, I didn't hear that.

It was very, like, very subtle.

It was in like, we found a body.

Like, it was very much like, I didn't hear that, but I thought it was like genius that Laszlo had talked about how, I think there were a lot of checkups going on in the film, like, so many, I caught like a few.

But I thought it was very genius that we go from the transitions from them looking for Harrison's body and then we go to the, like, they're searching the compound, right?

And then they go to the building that he built for the mom and it's like, we're going through it because Harrison has faded, like Harrison is the war, the villain or whatever, and he's faded.

What's standing remaining?

It's the church or the building that he's, you know, I think the final shot is the altar or whatever.

I think that's, that was the final.

Yeah, that's, I think that just like using him, using Laszlo himself as, you know, a personification of Judaism architecture.

I thought that was genius.

I think a lot of the things done in this film were genius.

And that's just another example too.

Yeah.

I like the film.

I think the second part, like you said, Ofili, like it's, it's its own movie.

And I think the transition was done well.

I didn't even like, it didn't really like, bother me because it felt like, it felt like reading a book, you know, like one chapter, you finish that chapter, and you turn the pages and the chapter looks different.

It complements each other well.

But I, I don't know what it is, but with these movies, I'm just like, there has to be more, like, you can't just, I don't know, after watching first part, I was excited to see what the second part was going to be.

But yeah, I wanted more.

And I don't know what that would look like, but yeah.

What did, how did you feel?

I'm going to start with you, Misgana, sorry to put you on the spot, but how did you take in the rape scene?

How did that make you feel?

I almost cried, actually.

I think it was, it just, it didn't feel real.

Like I was sitting in there like watching it.

And I literally turned my face and I was like, is he, is he, and then my friend, he didn't even, he didn't even, he just made a face.

And I literally just started like tearing up because I was like, this can't be real.

But this is like the truth of a lot of like people that, that are quote unquote inferior to some sort of power or like people around them.

You like, you have no control.

And who is he going to speak up to?

What is he going to do?

Like, and, and also the timing of it.

I don't know if same-sex relationship, married or something that was like important.

I mean, it was introduced in the late 90s, with Rachel and whatnot.

But yeah, even him saying, like, I don't know how people would be understanding of what he was saying.

Yeah.

But it was, it was kind of brutal to watch and to see.

Yeah, it was interesting.

What about you, Ofili?

I think it's, well, it's not funny, but like, I feel like there was, there was a, so obviously, like, we can see, like, the power and balances are maintained throughout the film.

And to also pay you back off, I do want to make a note of Misgana's reviews.

When you ask what could he have done, he could have stopped working for them.

He was on contract.

And he was not getting paid anymore because he signed off the rest of his pay.

So he's working for free for his abuser, which he could have left at any point.

And we saw him get another job before.

He could have gone back to that other job.

Or even with his name being associated with Van Buren, I do not believe it would have been hard for him to get other jobs.

So I think he maintained staying ready to, like, fight for his pride regarding this work.

I think maybe he was worried that it's going to be complicated without him.

And, you know, it's going to be seen.

It's not going to be his project.

It's not going to be his baby anymore.

But regardless, I think even the courage to speak up, really tough, but at least even confiding your partner.

Honestly, he punched his partner more than he punished Van Buren.

And that was incredibly hurtful to watch, in my opinion.

Especially because she has osteoporosis and she's paralyzed.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But I think it also is like a disbelief that she's paralyzed, but he remembers her as the woman who he left to ask.

She came paralyzed to Pennsylvania.

But I don't think that mentality of her being paralyzed was important.

Even making the decision of leaving to go back was like, I'm leaving and there's this woman that needs help with going to the bathroom.

I don't know if they had elevators back then, probably going down the stairs, coming up the stairs, he just didn't care.

I think that's why I say he cared more about his work than anyone.

Even like his niece, he cared about her, but not that much.

I mean, that character, I really didn't like at all.

Yeah, Lazo was the character.

Yeah.

Yes.

But I think, yes, he could have left, but I think it's also the, I mean, he put his value into his work.

I think it was another, the ends justifies the means thing in his head.

Um, that, and I guess a pride thing as I mentioned earlier, but I do want to say that earlier in the film, there was, as I mentioned, like power imbalances maintained through the film.

I think at no point did Harrison see him as an equal.

Yeah, absolutely.

There was no point where Harrison, I think he was even amused.

His wife said, go get him excited again.

Go do your little dance.

And there were various scenes earlier on where it was like he takes away power from him multiple times.

So I don't think the rape scene is the first scene that we see him like taking away power, but it's the first scene that we see the physicality of taking away his power and his autonomy.

Because yeah, multiple scenes, he creates the problem.

He kind of like strong arms.

And I don't believe for a fact that he's the one that didn't know about like his son wanting to pay.

I think he was definitely involved in that decision to not pay.

Oh, interesting.

Yeah.

At the start, when he brings him back, even like bringing his wife over was even a show of the power that he has.

I think there were multiple decisions.

There was a lot of power in balance, power play there.

And there were, there were scenes that felt like kind of subtle flirting.

And like I made a joke between who and who?

Between Harrison and like Lazlo, like a kind of not Lazlo flirting back, but Harrison teasing, like basically like, like I think you could easily, because I mentioned it earlier in the film.

When we were watching it, me and a friend of mine and I was like, Yeah, I feel like he wants him.

I like he has him.

But like at the same time, like it's, yeah, it was kind of.

And again, I feel really bad that, you know, Lazlo does have like an addiction problem.

And we talked about that part of the self sabotage within the film.

I feel really bad that like, you know, it comes mid monologue of him finding him, you know, slumped over high and is like, you know, you pathetic immigrant, your people, why do you make it so easy for yourself?

And I'm just like, yeah, like not only are you raping him, you're lecturing him and like stereotyping his whole people.

Yeah, for me, I think I mentioned this to you guys in the group chat, but I thought it was because the film was R-rated, I had to show my ID, so I was expecting some.

You had to show your ID?

Yeah.

I show my ID every time.

I mean, I show it for what's it called though, like AMC.

Yeah.

No, I guess it's because it's in the mall.

After a certain time, you have to show ID.

So I don't know if it was because it was R-rated or something.

You didn't believe that you were above?

Yeah, no, they carded me, man.

They carded me.

They were like R-rated, show your ID.

But yeah, it's R-rated.

So I didn't know it was R-rated before going to the film.

I thought it was a regular TVME or something.

But during the film, we don't see the, like Zofia's abuse is implied.

The first sexual encounter between Elizabeth and Lazlo is like off camera.

So I thought, okay, the filmmaker set a very centaur tone to this.

Even whatever happened between Attila's wife and Attila, or when they would be dancing and the camera was, because in that red room, like it was pretty dark.

Or the very first shot when Lazlo came and they went to the brothel.

The brothel, yeah.

We don't see, like everything is censored.

So imagine my shock when, like for the rape scene, we focused the camera and we're watching.

And I'm just like, bro, you did all that just to do this.

So it caught me like a little bit.

And that's why I said this in the chat after.

But in thinking about it some more and I read this review and read it, that said something about capitalism.

Like Harrison representing capitalism and Lazlo representing creativity and showing that this is capitalism stifling creativity.

I'm like, that's interesting.

That's obviously a subjective take.

That's just the person's take.

I don't think that's what the filmmaker was trying to say.

But whatever it is, because I had a different interpretation and a few other people had different interpretation.

I think it was very important that Brady showed that scene.

Because it was important to his version.

It was important for him, for the audience to see that and create their meaning of what that meant.

It could be what Ofili, which I think is the most logical than what Ofili just said, the power, the dominance and all of that.

It could be for me, which for me was more, Lazlo was coming to feel like this was his thing, like the building was his thing, and he was coming to feel like independent.

Because he was yelling at some point, he was starting to feel like his own person.

And Harrison wanted to remind him that, nah, nigga, it's not that, you're not on your ones, I own you, relax.

I think that was the dominant.

Because even he was watching him from above, he was dancing on the shore, enjoying himself, being free.

And so I think that's all of my interpretation.

But all of that is not important.

Like if it's capitalism stifling creativity, if it's last dominating or rather, Harrison dominating last, I think it was important to Brady that the audience saw this and took their own interpretation or took away from that, whatever it was that he took away from that.

I like the way to say, I don't like, obviously, I don't like sexual assault, but I like that that scene was included and we got to watch that and we got to hear him lecture him and all of that.

I think, I do want to say like, no, I think a lot of it was shown.

I think Sovias wasn't shown.

I did get that.

Okay, let's start from the first scene, like the movie, like within the first like 10 minutes, we're seeing like a sex scene at the brothel.

I don't think Lazlo actually has sex with her.

I think she does go down.

We see that, but like they're also talking and like his cousin or his friend is like lecturing him like shut up and fuck her.

So like, I don't think that actually happens.

Then I think if they were reluctant with showing us like sex scenes or sexual content, they won't have shown us that like 1930s threesome.

The 1930s, oh yeah, that was in part one.

Yeah, that was like so random.

Cause I was like, we're watching last, we're watching.

It was just like POV.

Like we're just watching.

It looked like found footage.

I didn't take that as like part of like the film, you know.

Nah, it was so random.

Then we have like their like method heroine sex between them at the end.

But that came after the rape scene.

Okay, that's fair.

Sorry, rape scene was a catalyst for change.

Yeah, the rape scene took, yeah.

I hear you, but at the same time, I just, I don't know if like, I don't particularly agree.

Yeah, yeah, no, that's fine.

I think-

But I get what you're saying.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think when the filmmaker decides to, and I said this in my review, like the last duel is a film that I love and The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo, another film that I love.

And these are films-

Please, let it rest.

These are films that, for whatever reason, the filmmaker felt it was very important that we saw it.

Because typically, you're focusing on the girl's face, or you're focusing on the-

you start from seeing it and then you zoom away.

That's what I'm used to.

The last duel, we had, that's it, three different angles, three different accounts.

So when the filmmaker decides it's very important for us to see, I'm like, okay, like I sit up in my chair and I'm looking and like, I'm taking it in, which makes me sound weird.

But like I'm taking, what am I supposed-

like, why does this person feel it's very important that we see this and like, what is meant to be the interpretation of it or whatever.

So that's why, that's another, that's another like thing I kept thinking, another reason why, I don't know.

I thought that was good.

But I think Harrison was obsessed with-

Like he was obsessed with him since the beginning.

He's like, oh, how'd you, how'd you do this?

How?

And like, you know, I don't know what it is, but if people do that to me, I'm just like, what are you doing?

Stop, especially from people that you don't really know, or are we getting to know?

But to continue on, and when they were just sitting down and somebody came in and trapped Harrison while talking to you, and he was like, we're talking.

I'm like, okay, relax.

Gacchus cooked in that scene, he cooked.

Yeah, I think there's different scenes that made me think like this man is catering to, to Azra without, without like him thinking, oh, like, I'm being cared to.

It felt like to Azra, maybe it was a support.

He, he cared about him and he was one of the people that actually saw his talent and cared what he had to contribute.

But yeah, I don't think, I don't think it's really about powers.

He's just like, he was just obsessed with this man.

I don't think he was obsessed with him.

Yeah, I was, I do want to say anything, but I don't think he was obsessed with him.

I think, I think we can go into Steve's points about capitalism or like, you know, maybe that person was cooking on their own.

But I do see like a commercialization and capitalism aspect in the film that's very important to note.

Specifically because Harrison accidentally, he accidentally got a study that was featured in the magazine, beautiful enough to be featured in the magazine.

He didn't do any work for this, it didn't go, it just gave an extra, you know, it's like a big like, oh wow, okay, okay.

You're important.

It gave like a bit of dopamine to him.

And at the same time, he reached out to, he did a little bit of work.

It was like, okay, let me commission the artist because they're talking about this is like some postmodern blah, blah, blah.

And we have to remember, he paid very little for that.

He didn't pay at all.

No, he paid, he paid.

He came back and like, yeah, when he chased him down and everything, he came back and he paid him, which is cool.

And I felt like, what happened?

But I think this is like a, I think it's a really big thing with rich people though.

Like really rich people always have this chasing a legacy thing.

And I think the mother's building Brutalist architecture and like he even emphasizes that he wants it to be at least 75% done before he's dead.

Can I say, just because you said that it's obsession, I think the film tries to say that Harrison has a, I don't want to say weird, but a different relationship with money in different ways.

Like he gives us the monologue or the story about his grandparents.

His grandparents.

Not signing that and then eventually giving them a check for 500.

You could afford more.

He said 25,000 was not even that much and then ends up giving them 500, which is so weird.

And then at the dinner table, at the lunch table, he flicks the penny.

It throws the penny at him and then he's like, you know what?

Actually give me that penny back, a penny saved or whatever.

So I think the film is trying to tell us that Harrison, despite his inordinate amount of wealth and he has a lot of it, he still sees money as such a power thing.

His idea of money is tied to...

So him giving the architect that money wasn't because he, I don't even think it was because he liked him.

I think, like Fili just said, he got that dopamine rush from being featured in the article and he wanted to use money as power.

You can see he was happy when Harrison was very pleased to receive the money and you can see like he smiled and oh no, it's okay, I'll send a car to pick you up.

And I think also to add a bit of exploitation and immigrant workers' conversation to this.

Lazo, for one, felt valued as Misgana mentioned earlier, and that definitely conflated in his mind with like, oh, okay, I have been on compromising, I haven't needed as much of that to the American system.

Yes, I have done odd jobs, I've struggled, I've been hungry.

But, you know, in terms of this kind of architectural work, yeah, he had, he was about to design a fucking bowling alley, man.

Like he didn't start from the bottom, which is like cool because he, you know, he's foreign work.

So, you know, he already has a repertoire, he already has the knowledge, already has the understanding.

So he can, but within a new land or a new, you know, I won't say industry, but like, you know, he didn't start the same way everyone else started.

And he got really good benefits based off of that.

And for him, it hit his ego because again, we see him try, you know, he's a dross man, one of many other architects in that firm.

And immediately Harrison comes in and runs back.

He's like, yeah, I got to go back to the special place.

My special place.

The special place.

And you see, and I think like it is very intentional that we see how small his living room is when his, when Zofia and her husband are saying that, yeah, we're going back to Israel.

And how small just like, we know what New York apartments are.

Now imagine what they look like in the 20s.

And then back to the whole conversation with Harrison, just like, I just feel like he, first of all, shout out to Guy Pearce, because initially I said like, I was very much against like the Karen Culkin, Oscar shouts for supporting.

And like now I feel even more back that like, there was a much more insane performance out there.

Guy Pearce is probably my favorite supporting nom this year, yeah.

But film, films are hard to me was really good.

And like, I kind of lost my point, because I was going to talk about like capitalism again.

But, you know, essentially Laszlo, I'm so sorry, but, you know, uncompromising nature did do you bad.

I mean, we see capitalism in the friendship, him firing his friend.

Oh, yeah, like, he can do that because he's superior.

And also, that was doing pull up.

He's, yeah, he was like, get out of here.

Like, he was that person that was being told to, to like adhere to the rules and regulations that are placed.

But now he's making rules and he feels somewhat superior.

And you see that and you see his wife go like, why are you doing that?

Don't do that.

Like, what's going on?

Yeah, let's talk about the elephant in the room.

Yes.

A black character being added.

Oh, that was so hilarious.

I was like, OK, love that man.

But OK.

Wait, what are we?

There are two elephants.

I thought we're talking about EI.

That's the elephant I thought we were talking about.

Oh, we can talk about that.

But I like the I don't know.

I just all complain about the use of black.

I like the black character.

No, I'm not.

I'm not.

I'm not against it.

It just was funny.

It just was funny.

Like, right after slavery happened.

We had we had a little kiki about that in the group chat because I was like, I should have known this movie was not real with the white immigrants trying to be best friends with black men.

Like, you know, the same way like with Kong's where we had like Cardinal D and me literally be running to be people.

Come on.

Come on.

Come on.

It's a theme.

Yeah.

We know how these institutions worked in the time that they were like, come on.

I don't think just because Laszlo was poor, like honestly.

Yeah.

To be published in a news magazine.

He must be important.

He must have been somewhat important.

He was doing work and he was getting paid for it.

So, yeah, I don't think I believe that.

But you know what's interesting?

What I thought you were going to say when you said a character added was in the epilogue scene.

A lot of people didn't notice that they used Oviya's actress as her daughter.

I was like, wait, what?

Maybe.

But they self-launched that though, because when Elisabeth is reading the letter, she talks about how Zofia's daughter looks just like her.

Okay.

Sure.

And then I see that's Zofia.

But yeah, fair enough.

It wasn't really surprising because, I mean, that's her mom.

So that's true.

That's true.

Like to be similar.

So I was like, okay, they wanted somebody.

Yeah.

I just didn't like that Zofia, or whatever her name was, was quiet the whole time.

It pissed me off.

It pissed me off.

When I told you, I was like, this girl needs to utter a word.

When that boy was trying to flirt with her, Harris' son, I was like, are you going to say something?

I'm dead.

I had to look up.

I wasn't like weighted out by it, but I had to look it up just to understand.

And like, going mute is an effective way to say it.

Yeah, it's a question, it's a response.

It's a very common response.

Yeah, so I saw that, I'm like, okay, that's fine.

I think also-

Can you just do speech therapy or something to get it back?

You can overcome it without speech therapy, but I think it's okay.

But yeah, we can spend the last five minutes talking about The Elephants in the Room that just was published in the last fucking day.

The last 24 hours in regards to the use of AI for the vocalization or just like the tonation to improve the accents when they're speaking Hungarian.

I feel very weird now.

Initially, I think I also put this in the group chat that I felt like the film was a bit soulless for me.

Now, you know, we have AI being used.

That affects you.

This is A, I'm B.

And in addition, there's two things, because they also use AI to generate some of the architecture of the film.

I'm saying because what are we doing?

Because now you're losing production design credits.

But not to defend AI, obviously, I don't use that.

But that use of AI for architecture was only for the epilogue, like when they're showing us what the things that he's done, posts, you know.

Yes, I hear you.

But again, it would have still been involved in production design, like the general view.

That's true.

That's true.

And I think also in addition, a lot of people were asking, how did you make such a great movie on like a $10 million budget?

I guess we know why.

I guess we know how that fucking happened.

Like, it was 91 days.

Like I saw all the people gassing it up.

It was like filmed in 91 days on a 10 million budget, and they had to create a whole town.

Yeah.

And you just like, oh, I'm so sorry.

I know I'd be sitting on Marvel and Disney and be using Aisle to cut corners like this way.

Come on.

Their budgets are crazy high for a good reason.

But yeah, I think this should honestly disqualify from Best Picture laws.

I think it should also disqualify both.

I think, unfortunately, this improves the acting quality.

It is improvement.

And because we all know how bad a poor or semi inaccurate accent affects how we receive a film.

So using that to make it as natural or authentic kind of subserves the purpose and the amount of work that certain actors put in when they're speaking and when they're learning new languages for films.

If your actor cannot speak good Hungarian.

Well, first of all, you could get an actor who's native Hungarian.

You know, we saw that in the Nora, they got Russian actors that were revered.

So you could have just done that instead of getting Adrian Brody.

But you know, you're one of the Oscar shouts, you're shooting for the Oscars.

We don't we don't appreciate that.

How about I mean, we have no say, we're not members of the Academy.

But how about how about it like, okay, so like architecture design, we can clip that or like removing them from certain, you know, like you can say, okay, Brody should not be eligible for best actor and the Brutalist should not be eligible for best picture.

No, no, no, not best picture, eligible for production design.

But I don't think it's very fair for us to take them away from best picture contenders because they're not my pick for best picture.

I think I still maintain they should be Anura or Jane Orton.

But I don't think like this should remove them from best picture race because if we're able to identify the, oh, I see both of your faces.

You don't agree.

No, I think you should continue.

Yeah, make your point.

Oh, yeah, I think, I think, I think like a lot of the aspects of the film, right, the film making itself, which sure like using AI undermines that it, it undermines the integrity or the artistic integrity of the film, which is a key aspect, you know, judging what the best picture is.

But in terms of, you know, the whole, the whole, the storytelling, the whole picture coming together, the parts that we're saying use generative AI, don't necessarily fit into that.

It's just one person's performance and like, it's about two.

Two?

Who was the other one?

Felicity.

Oh, the wife?

Yeah, every time she speaks on Garen.

I think you can't fault Adrian, for Adrian Brady, for the use of AI, because he probably is doing his job at the end of the day.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But I think, yeah, his accent was, was modified, but it's just his accent.

I think his, he's still an actor.

He did his job.

Yeah, I think the, the best picture one, it's a complete no for me, because there are movies like Wicked, that, that aren't here, like that set every production, and made their money's worth, whereas an AI, whatever, like if it, if it's like a sentence user or whatever it is, I don't care.

You use artificial intelligence to help you be at a higher scale, and that should immediately disqualify.

They brought this same thing for Handsome Men, but back when he was making June 2, and he said, I don't want no AI music.

Yeah, it worked great.

And I think if the message is, it's okay to use it, I think it will be okay to use it for the future.

So I think it will set a bad precedent.

Yeah, it will set the tone for any movie that's being filmed or that's going to be released in the future.

I also want to say, yeah, I think we're not yet at the points where we...

I agree with Misgana, just to start off.

I don't think we're at the points where there is a consensus that, hey, we're allowed to use AI in film, and to what degree, and how much of it is disclosed.

Because they did not disclose this.

This was a leaked article.

Okay, so that is sneaky in itself.

It's like when you're using AI for exams and papers, some schools, they have policies regarding AI where you also have to disclose it.

So that is one example.

I think if everyone could use AI to improve the quality of their work, most people would.

That was what was done in THE BRUTALIST.

It reduces the authenticity.

Specifically, we honestly don't even know how much was used.

Because like, you know, in this interview, we were told, well, initially, we expected none.

Then in this interview, we were told, oh, well, we used it for this and that.

So another interview could come out and say, well...

There's more.

Yeah, there's more.

Like, but I think in, but to Steve, I think a couple of things.

Do you remember that Brad Pitt movie called THE DEVIL'S OWN, where he has like a Jamaican accent?

Oh, no.

There's that clip where he has it.

OK, never mind.

There is also House of Gucci, Lady Gaga's accents and Jared Leto's.

No, no, no.

Jared Leto's Italian accent.

Tell me that accents don't really matter.

Tell me that accents don't really matter in movies anymore.

Ridley Scott is not that good a filmmaker anymore for me to only say the thing.

The only thing I was wrong with this film was the accent.

That was always doomed from the start.

I think the accents play a big role in to convincing you that this is a good film.

Yeah, but like I think the, I will give them benefit of the doubt with, I don't know about Felicity, but Adrian is Hungarian.

Yeah, his mother is Hungarian, so he's half Hungarian.

But the thing is that they still needed, he does absolutely.

So I think maybe effort was made on his part.

Shout out to that.

But that's why I'm like leaning in with Adrian, and also like to rob him.

It feels like robbing him.

Robbing Adrian?

Yeah, and not from us, but like the director point, robbing him from the trueness of storytelling.

Because God knows, maybe they said, yeah, we're not going to use it.

And then he sees it and he fuses.

So it's like, we can't really blame.

He signed off.

Apparently, the process was that he signed off on using the AI tool, because how they did is that they recorded their voices, then the interpreter was like the trainer.

Yeah, but Misgana saying like, Misgana saying after that, like he could have, you know, not wanted that to be used.

Or maybe they said, we're not going to use this.

Yeah, the final cut.

When it happens, like, you know, a lot of actors don't really see the final cut.

I think that is completely fair, but I think that goes back to the conversation regarding authenticity.

I think if, as a screenwriter, as a director, as a casting manager, if being able to speak Hungarian using its native donations is such an important aspect for you, you then pick an actor that can do that seamlessly.

You don't pick an actor that, one, is popular, maybe is also a previous Academy winner, and is also very favorably looked at.

Then you make them better at speaking the language through technology.

I mean, shit, they could afford it.

Yeah, shout out to them.

Yeah, but like, yeah, exactly.

You could, and again, this goes into the conversation.

We're talking about a film with exploitation, and, you know, power imbalances.

And you're within the process of making the film.

You're doing that.

Anyway, yeah, so that's the, we're still very early on.

Like Ofili said, this article was out in the last 24 hours.

So we'll see how it plays out.

Yeah, we'll see how it plays out.

I think Brody was my pick for the actor, and I think Brutalist was my pick for picture.

But now, if it plays out that we're removing all these films, Wicked is probably the happiest person in the land, and that just hurts to say.

That just hurts me.

So we'll see how that goes.

But final question, what is our verdict?

What's the TCA verdict?

I am going with a 9.5.

Oh, I'm going with a 8.

Are you factoring AI into your rating, Misgana?

To some degree, yes.

Oh my god.

We are going.

No, no, no.

You have to understand.

After I watched that movie, I walked out, and you read it in my room.

I walked out thinking this is like a really good movie for a lot of us that, I mean, I really don't strive to live the American dream, but to feel some day about accomplishing something.

And being somewhat, I don't want to be important to anyone, even the world, but I think it was really beautiful, and it reminded me a lot about our stories, the stories we hear about immigrants.

So it was really nice.

And then coming to find out about the AI, and the whole movie is about architecture.

So if it's about a car, and they pull it from the car, it's like, all right, it's fine.

But the center of the movie is architecture.

And I don't know, as somebody who loves architecture, I was kind of disappointed, but.

Yeah.

So A for you, Are, Ofili?

I think for me, prior to, yeah, because I had a four star for me, but so prior to, what's it called?

Finding out the AI stuff, I'd give it an A, but now with AI stuff, I'm on like a 7.5 or 7 for sure.

Yeah, it's a great movie.

It's a good movie.

I would recommend to some.

Okay, so I went to a kickback and they asked what was the last thing I watched and I was actually ashamed to say the reason that's because it's four hours.

And I was like, there was an intermission though, but like, you know, it's one of them.

I did, I kept telling everyone.

I think I knew though.

I don't know why you paid me.

It was very important to tell people because that was a big reason why I was able to go watch that movie like midweek after work.

Yeah, I was like the fact that I get like a break in the middle, I'm cool.

Yeah, I got more food.

I talked with someone.

I was like, yeah, I made sure I got my snacks and everything prior.

I got snacks prior, but like still, no, I got snacks prior.

No, I'm not a snack person.

So I'm like, I was like, it's a four hour movie.

We have to get a snack.

And that ends.

Yeah, the friend I was in with, he didn't say that it was for it.

It had an intermission.

I just found out.

But it was great overall.

So that brings us to an average of 8.3.

That's where we're going with that.

Damn.

There we go with that.

Okay.

It really was like a harsh rating, 7.5.

Well, thank you all for listening.

This has been another episode of The Cinephile's Aisle.

We hope you enjoyed it.

If you haven't seen The Brutalist, obviously go see it.

Yes, please do.

And if you have, we hope you enjoyed the episode.

Thank you.