Episode 26: "MATERIALISTS" feat. Misgana & Bankole

"...breaking down today's films with tomorrow's eyes," Ofili has clearly been working on a tagline. Joined by Steve, frequent guest Misgana and new guest Banky from Popcorn for Dinner, they dissect the sophomore feature from Celine Song, MATERIALISTS. They explore the mischaracterization of the film's genre (12:30), comparisons to Song's debut film PAST LIVES (18:45), the lead character's turning point (49:35), and the powerful performance from Zoë Winters (59:00). They close out by discussing potential implications of MATERIALISTS on the future of cinema (1:08:15) and the bizarre audience reaction to the film (1:12:55). TCA Verdict: 8.4/10

Transcript

All right, all right, welcome back to another episode of The Cinephile's Aisle, where we break down today's films with tomorrow's eyes.

You know, I like that one, you know?

I know, I know, right?

I've been working on it, I've been working on it.

So again, it's Ofili right here, and I'm here with Steve and Misgana, plus we have a new guest.

Say hi.

It's Bankole I., 30 years old, booking his ticket to Turkey, bad financial investment, no need for leg surgeries, we thank God.

I can always give you a few TV recommendations.

Yeah, just like Chris Evans in this film is my spirit animal, just trying to survive in an expensive city.

Yeah, I'm happy to be here.

I hope you're here.

Thank you.

Thank you for having me.

Yeah, we love that.

We love having you on here.

All right, guys.

So how's everyone doing?

Doing good.

Doing good.

This is a real, you know, I don't want to say a full circle moment, but I remember two years and a month ago, almost to the day when Fili and I were talking about this, we used like, we had like a mini mood board that we did on iPhone Note.

And we had like a bunch of podcasts that we wanted to sort of muddle ourselves after.

And Popcorn for Dinner was one of them, you know?

So this is like a full circle moment having them.

That's crazy.

I think we mentioned them a few times on the podcast actually, so it's so good to...

I mean, Ofili has been on the podcast a few times.

I mean, that's high praise.

Thank you.

No, no, bro.

I think Popcorn for Dinner was like one of three.

We were like, yeah, we like the way these guys are.

We want to be like them, but with our own little spin.

Yeah.

And it wasn't just because it was a film podcast because we literally had like Submaroach on there.

It was really like the vibe, the structure and stuff like that.

So, yeah, no, good to have you.

I mean, thank you.

You guys are killing it.

Obviously, Ayisha has been here twice.

Yeah, I think I'm on this one here.

You guys, Ofili has been on Popcorn for Dinner a few times.

So, yeah, no, this is thank you very much.

Those are nice words.

Well, yeah, I mean, you guys are doing great stuff.

Just it's nice to obviously have other black people that have coverage films and also just like of our age range, right?

Like a lot of these podcasts are state-sponsored podcasts, like Variety's podcast or Daz podcast or like the big guys like the Ringer.

So like I realized that there are not that many of our ilk that actually know what they are saying.

So, yeah, it's nice.

So, yeah.

So thank you.

But yeah, you guys are killing it.

Yeah, we love this.

Misgana, come on.

How are we doing?

I'm doing great.

I missed the podcast.

So it's glad to see that it's back and up and running.

I'm excited to talk about this movie because I've been waiting.

I've been waiting and thankfully, they had an early screening in Elmo Draft House and I said, I'm there.

I already pay monthly membership, but I said, you know what, $20 again, it's not that much.

We will go.

Isn't that crazy?

Yeah, I'm excited about this movie.

All right.

Also, Misgana, I just wanted to say a special thank you for being irregular on the podcast because you're absolutely preventing us from being the stereotype of three guys on your podcast just talking.

I'm not going to lie to you.

I was thinking about MATERIALISTS and I was like, God, I hope there's a woman on this podcast.

I really, really hope it's not the three of us.

I didn't want to say anything because I was like, if you don't have a female guest, then we're just going to be too late.

I was like, oh my God, there are probably points I don't want to discuss, just three black men.

I was like, I just hope there's a woman on this podcast.

I'm sorry, I really fear I am.

Insane, insane stuff.

All right, guys, we have a new tradition we're going to kick off with.

Question of the day, a question of the pod, icebreaker question.

If you could watch one film, this is your last film you ever get to see in theater, one movie you're watching.

I like this one.

Steve, you go first.

I go first?

Absolutely.

I think PADDINGTON 2.

I know I've talked about PADDINGTON 2 on the podcast before, and I feel like that's a rather cliched answer.

But in so many ways, and I hate that this is my answer because they just had press for HOW TO TRAIN A DRAGON, and that was one of the girls' favorite films, so it feels like I'm copying her now.

But I would have said PADDINGTON 2 before this because it's actually a perfect film, even though it's been said so many times, and it's so heartwarming, and it has all the core concepts of what life should be.

So if I'm about to die, or if it's the last time I'm ever going to see, I want a film that I feel encompasses the meaning of all this, which is PADDINGTON 2 for me.

You know that Drake meme after the Raptors one, and he's like, we created this.

This is all of us.

This is me whenever Steve talks about PADDINGTON 2, because I put him on, and he was arguing crazy with me.

I said PADDINGTON 2 made me a better man.

He said how?

Now he gets it.

Have you watched the Nic Cage film, the one with the very long title with Pedro Pascal?

Ungentlemanly?

The massive weight of talent or some long title.

Yeah.

And then spoiler alert, there's this running gag where Pedro Pascal is like, PADDINGTON 2 is incredible.

And he goes like, it can't be that good.

And the movie ends and he's like, oh, you are right.

This movie is.

Yeah, that's literally it.

Fili had been telling me about PADDINGTON 2, PADDINGTON 2, and I was just like, bro, ain't no way, bro, I'm not doing that.

I also am not a big fan of animated movies for some reason.

But I saw that like back to back post breakup, like right after the breakup as a PADDINGTON 1 and 2.

I was just like, yeah, I get it.

Oh, so it's more than the movie.

Yeah.

PADDINGTON 1 and 2 saved your life.

Like that's what you're saying.

He wants to remember that moment.

Fair enough.

Fair enough.

Who else?

I mean, I can go.

If it's in IMAX, it's be TOP GUN: MAVERICK.

Because I didn't get to see it in IMAX.

I didn't get to see IMAX in its first run.

I'm so annoyed that I haven't put it back to cinema.

Like I saw it in normal screen and I was very annoyed.

So it's be TOP GUN: MAVERICK.

But then I don't know.

I've been thinking about this movie a lot in the past week.

So it might just be BREAKFAST CLUB.

Because BREAKFAST CLUB is one of the first movies I guess I can say I fell in love with.

When I started watching movies, I don't know how I just ended up watching old John Hughes films.

And then I just fell in love with BREAKFAST CLUB and the scenes with the four of them or five of them.

And I guess it's be like a full circle moment.

I think BREAKFAST CLUB was the first time I actually watched a movie of just people talking.

Again, I was maybe like 17, 18 when I watched BREAKFAST CLUB for the first time.

Because I had people just talking and people like showing their selves.

The basic thing of like, now it seems quite rude or whatever.

They're like, oh, we're all the same.

But back then when I was 17, it seemed revolutionary.

So yeah, I guess it'd be a full circle moment at BREAKFAST CLUB.

I like that.

I like that.

I like BREAKFAST CLUB.

I'll go next then.

I was thinking how I understood this movie was like, well, the question was, oh, what was the last movie you want to watch that's not released yet?

Before you die?

Oh.

That's how I understood it.

Okay, yeah.

I was thinking wait.

Because that movie.

I want to see that movie before I die.

It's never going to come out.

The way they have been dragging the new Blade movie.

Yeah.

It's unfortunately never coming out.

Please don't say that.

I saw the news today that it's back in production and I'm like, bro, I've seen this headline so many times.

That's a great answer, Misgana.

That's like, yeah, it is.

You know how they usually like, this is going to take a dark turn.

But you know how when the directors are like, oh, I'm showing this terminal ill kid, this is the cut of the film before they die.

And like, imagine if I was just like, look, this is the only cut of Blade.

We're just going to show it to you.

Once you go, I'm going to burn it.

That's not going to happen.

I need to see the beginning to the end.

But now that I've understood the question correct, I think maybe Perfect Days or Columbus.

I don't know which one I would pick.

I can't even remember so perfect days.

I don't know how that just skipped me.

Yeah.

I don't know why I didn't think of that.

That's actually a great answer.

It's a really, really...

That movie has made me sentimental ever since I watched it.

I don't know what...

It turned a key into my brain and just things have not been the same in a good way.

I want to remember that feeling.

I think...

Yeah.

I feel like PERFECT DAYS encompasses the essence of the question, really, because PERFECT DAYS.

And I'm not going to say I felt the exact same way after watching Paddington 2 as I did PERFECT DAYS, but they were very similar.

But in different...

Paddington 2 was more emotional, warming or whatever.

PERFECT DAYS, my review for PERFECT DAYS is pages long.

And I was just typing and typing because I felt so many things after that.

It really was so good.

Such a simple movie.

Yeah, like groundbreaking, if you will.

All right, I think I can finish up.

I don't like this thing that everyone is doing where they're dropping two movies.

I'm going to be honest with you guys.

These people misunderstood the question.

Oh, you can drop two.

We are dying.

Allow us an extra film.

I feel like, come on.

Fair enough, fair enough.

Okay, I would say niche pick, deep cut.

I would do, it's not really a deep cut, but I would probably do IN THE MOOD FOR LOVE.

You know, pure yearner.

Have to stay that way to the end.

You get me?

That's a crazy last film to watch.

I'm just saying.

I'm giving you a side eye.

I'm giving you a very big side eye.

You don't get it.

You don't get it.

That's it.

You don't get it.

Thankfully, I don't.

I'm actually grateful that I don't get it.

I would say that one.

You know, just something that reminds you about, you know, the beauty within life.

I'm just seeking more, bro, seeking more.

Those little moments are everything sometimes.

I would say second movie, and every couple of months, I feel like people remember how great this movie is.

And I feel like THE SOCIAL NETWORK has to be like, it has to be one of the most perfect films ever made.

I knew that's what you were going to say when you said every couple of months.

It's like, yeah, like...

I also got a tweet recently, and man, I reheat that movie so often.

Like, Jesus Christ, it's so good.

It's so good.

SOCIAL NETWORK is so good.

Yeah.

You forget how good it is.

And anyway, you're watching, you're like, oh, I forgot this movie was this.

Like, I forgot, like, everybody was cooking so much in this film.

Rent was very much due.

And they were all like 23.

Like, the kids were all like 23.

Garfield, Eisenberg.

You know, also, speaking of rent being due, today's episode is actually on what they call 'Poor Man Propaganda'.

Oh.

That's what they recall.

So, you know, you brought this phrase to my attention.

I did not know what it was until I spoke to Ofili.

And then yesterday, I was talking to somebody and she said she had just watched MATERIALISTS.

And I never, I had to say, first of all, I never do this.

I have to say I apologize.

But first of all, how old are you?

Because I didn't know how old she was before I asked her what her thoughts on the film were.

Because it's where everything is context.

Like, so she's 20, but she, like, enjoyed the film.

And then she, but she called out, like, the people calling it.

And I was like, you know what, you have a bright future.

I felt like, I felt like at the end of Fablemans, when John Ford is talking to Steven Spielberg, I was like, you're going to make it.

I was like, you know what, you're 20, but you have a bright future.

And I was like, this is two in two days.

I've heard, like, four months' propaganda.

I just can't believe it was passed.

Yeah, The MATERIALISTS.

It's crazy.

It's really crazy how people understood the movie.

We'll discuss that.

We'll get to the audience reactions.

But yeah, The MATERIALISTS, directed by Celine Song, really sharpened, I would say, ironic study of modern relationships, money, and I guess the quiet desperation involved in capitalist romance.

Good general blend of drama, satire, and romance.

Some people thought it was a rom-com.

I don't know what gave it that vibe.

Don't know what gave it that vibe.

Do people think it was a rom-com after or before watching it?

I think before, before watching it.

That's where a lot of people felt kind of betrayed going in and it dealt with some heavy subject matter.

And I was like, you didn't think this was a dramatic satire.

Even the trailer, everything is really on the nose.

Like, it's so on the nose.

And Banky, me and you talked about how like directors feel like they have to spell out things.

Yeah, yeah.

I was telling Ofili that I...

The title, the title, say it out.

I think the first scene of this film, I was like, okay, okay, I know what she's doing.

When it starts with the caveman exchanging, and then MATERIALISTS appears, I was like, okay.

But what Ofili was saying, I said that, I've decided I'm never gonna criticize directors or writers or whatever for being not subtle.

Because I've realized that you can't be subtle in 2025 because people just don't want to like learn.

So if you want to beat them over the head with a stick, please go ahead.

If you want to do, what's his name?

Adam McKay's, what's the movie with the last one, with Jonah Hill and everybody, the global warming one.

There's Don't Look Up.

Yeah, Don't Look Up.

If you want to go as front-faced as that and no subtlety, maybe that's what we need because subtlety is just going over the heads of everybody nowadays.

I think they need to start-

No, go on.

Yeah, I thought this movie wasn't subtle enough.

We'll talk about it in like certain things.

Then I came out, I was like, oh, actually, maybe you're fine.

Maybe if you had made Harry more romantic, the point would have been good.

I think maybe they need to start at the end of movies, put up a QR code, everyone should scan.

These are director's notes.

Those are the messages of the film.

Don't put it in front of your own.

This is not the Bible.

Please.

Yeah.

And this is not about you.

This is not about you.

You don't care about what you might do.

Exactly.

Exactly.

It's not about you.

That's a very good way to put it.

No, I had to write it in my review.

I was like, please, her, Lucy's life is not your reality.

Don't confuse the two.

That's her life, that's her story.

Your reality is different.

Yeah, absolutely.

I think Misgana, I read your review before writing mine and it was so long and I'm like, bro, she must have been so into it when she wrote this style because you were just typing and typing, and it sounded like you were talking directly to people, yelling at people that saw the movie.

And I'm like, what the hell did them niggas do to make her so mad?

I was pissed.

I think Misgana came in, it was hilarious in the group chat because I don't think we had, and no one had said anything for like a week and a half.

No one had said anything, bro.

It was quiet in here.

It was for a week and a half, solid.

The group chat had moved down.

All of a sudden, Misgana drops this long ass text and it starts to, Ofili, you were right.

And at first, you know, sometimes I like to hear that, Ofili, you were right, but when it's followed by a long paragraph...

When no one is followed by a...

Yeah, I'm like, okay, let's wait.

I'd rather be wrong.

I'd rather be wrong.

So, yeah, I mean, it's just like a criticism.

Wait, I have to ask this.

So, sorry, so Misgana, did you see the criticism before you watched the film?

So you, like, is that why you're angry or?

No, I watched it, I watched it, like, probably three days before it got released.

Yeah, it was like a Wednesday or something, it was early.

I watched it on a Monday, and then I watched it again on, when it was released, the same day, same time it was released to people.

So I was like, I really want to watch it a second time.

And then I left the theater, it was like, reading reviews, people hated it, people, like, because of the leasualties choice, people hated it, whatever, like, fair, that's, that's fair, I guess.

But people were like, talking about the same thing that you brought up, like, the broke men or-

Propaganda, yeah.

I'm just like, okay, like, this is not about your daily life, though, like, did you register?

And then it just kept repeating over and over again.

I'm not gonna fall for this propaganda, this is an advert.

I'm like-

Propaganda is crazy.

Ofili, are we doing this now?

Should we do the audience first?

Should we just start?

Let's go back to you.

I think you can say that, because I feel like we can go almost a full episode, just to attack, yeah, on that.

I feel like, just to touch on what you're saying, Misgana, I feel like normally the top reviews on Letterboxd, that the, you know, the quirky or the one-liners that are meant to get people to laugh and get likes.

So it's usually cool when I see those one-liners, like, oh, I'm not falling for broke men.

But like, if you keep going down, then you see the real reviews.

And I kept seeing the people with the real reviews saying the same things.

So that's when I was like, oh, this is actually people's interpretation of this film.

And a couple of people that are from New York felt like they were Lucy.

And they were like, there is no real way I would, you know, have that in New York City and take a man with two thousands of blah, blah, blah.

And I'm like, bro, did you already make up your mind on what the film was trying to say?

And just whatever happened, you just didn't care.

And you were just taking your own layers.

And that's it.

So I agree with you, fully, right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'll just drop that.

We're not going to discuss it because I don't want to derail you guys.

I'll just drop that.

The woman I was talking about, the 20-year-old, she mentioned that she thought, and again, I'm just going to take her word for it because it's her generation, that she thought that the people that were talking about the film were conflating the character with their love for Pedro Pascal.

Absolutely.

Which is like a crazy.

I understand loving, like I love Pedro Pascal, I love Chris Evans as well, but to them be like, I can't believe she didn't end up with Pedro Pascal.

Forgetting about everything about his character.

Just like, let's go to the rest of it.

I think this is really interesting.

I think that's a really good pivot because that's one of my questions around behind the scene insights.

We know this was directed, this was produced by A24.

We know Celine Song, we loved PAST LIVES, we can spend enough time talking about PAST LIVES.

Go listen to our previous episodes.

I think we have like two episodes talking about PAST LIVES.

One directly and one other one, it would be like supplemental information for like half the episode.

But essentially, do you guys think it changed the direction of the film with A24 not using like indie darlings and going straight to blockbuster actors?

Because Chris Evans, Pedro Pascal, Dakota.

I feel like the two male leads in that movie made people feel like this should be a rom-com because of how much they love Pedro Pascal and Chris Evans.

Well, to be fair, let's be fair to audiences.

The movie was marketed as a rom-com.

Like the trailers are rom-com.

Like if you look beyond the initial layer, you can see that there's more to it.

I think all of us here went in thinking a romantic drama, right?

But like they brought back the voice over guy.

Like the trailers do feel rom-com-y.

But I never thought this was going to be THE PROPOSAL.

Absolutely.

Or HOW TO LOSE A GUY IN 10 DAYS.

Like unless you're just going off TikTok bites, like you should be able to see that there's more to this story.

Right.

But no, I think you have to go big.

Like if you're going for this big summer romantic comedy, stroke romantic drama, and you can get Chris Evans, Dakota Johnson, and Pedro Pascal, you get Dakota Johnson, Chris Evans, and Pedro Pascal.

Like why would you go smaller after her last film was Oscar-nominated?

That's true.

Yeah.

Like last film had John Magoro.

Let's not act as if like, yeah, he's like, it's fair.

He's not an A-lister, but like he's still somebody that people recognize.

So you have to step up from there, I think, personally.

That's fair.

That's fair.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

What do you think, regarding when she wrote this film, do you guys think she saw PAST LIVES, like she's like, pressed her of PAST LIVES, she's like, I want to write something that gets the people really upset.

I feel like this was intentional.

I don't think she thought this movie was going to get people upset.

I'm sorry.

I just don't think.

I don't think so either.

I think, okay.

So I told, I was talking to a different Aisha and I said, this was basically PAST LIVES sequel about the whole love, throuple or whatever, because it's PAST LIVES was semi-biographical.

And I'm like, it will be very sad if she just essentially remakes PAST LIVES because it shows no range.

And so going into it, like from the trailer, I full on thought it was going to be an entire different film based on the reaction of PAST LIVES.

I don't know that.

I can't say that she was trying to get people pissed off or anything.

I think she was trying to tell a somewhat different story, right?

Using themes that she's familiar with, themes that she's obviously shown expertise in with PAST LIVES.

But I don't know that she thought this was going to be upset.

If anything, I think she even chose the safer option, given the story that we have.

It's so safe.

I think this is the safest that she could have done with the end.

Mind you, Celine is a writer.

That's her primary occupation.

You know what I mean?

This is her domain.

She knows how to write a story.

If her goal is to upset people, if her goal is to leave audiences disappointed at the end, she knows how to do that.

I don't know that she was trying to have anyone leave the theatre pissed off.

I do feel that this film was in opposition to PAST LIVES.

I feel like PAST LIVES kind of explored love and faith with a bit more restraint, whereas this is messier.

It's angrier.

When I say I thought it was going to be PAST LIVES, that was why I told Aisha before going into the film.

Then I went in and I was surprised.

Because I thought she was going to, full disclosure, I thought she was going to end up with Pedro because of the way PAST LIVES went.

But I'm glad that she did and I'm saying that she didn't.

So it's not similar to.

I think Chris Evans was a perfect, perfect cast.

And also I based it off of like her, like references from the MATERIALISTS.

I feel like if you watch any of Chris Evans' movies of him in romantic scenes, he's the perfect like person for romance.

I don't know what it is.

Every movie that he's done that's rom-com, romance based, he does it really well.

And I think he was a perfect person for that.

Pedro, I don't really have an opinion on him.

He's a cool guy, you know, like loved him like that.

But I think it was just like he was just around.

And I've shared this critique before, where they cast people that are very big and whatnot, like when they're like people that exist that should be cast, that are not.

And Pedro, I mean, how many movies has he been in in the past three years?

I loved him, that he's getting all these jobs, but...

Calm down, calm down, Misgana.

We're going into territory.

I mean, we're going into that Pedro Pascal is not a movie star in the TV after Territory.

He is a great movie star, but I think that at the same time, there are a lot of...

Like when you were thinking of PAST LIVES, we don't like the guy in CHALLENGERS.

I didn't even notice that until we got set.

But the other men or the other audience, I mean, actors and actresses in there, we're not like known to Hollywood as Pedro is.

So...

I understand what she's saying.

I don't think she's saying that Pedro is not a movie star.

I feel like she's saying she doesn't have a strong opinion in him.

Yeah, I know.

He's an A-lister, so that's why he's in these roles.

I mean, my...

And he's talented.

I'm not taking that away from him.

My love for Pedro aside, I do think like...

And we can get...

I don't know how you want to discuss the characters.

I do think like his character is probably the worst served by this.

Oh, absolutely.

And it might be intentional, because I think, again, she wanted to make it clear that these guys don't have chemistry.

But I do wonder, and I feel like we're talking about this, I do wonder if it would have been better if...

But again, it would have been better for us, but it's not better for the audience that is dumb.

Sorry to anyone who is so offended by that.

Yeah, because like, if they had chemistry and they had something, but it wasn't the thing, then other things are already supporting...

Like, they're already supporting the rich guy without the chemistry.

So I don't know how...

I think it would have been a better film and it would have better give Harry more dimension.

But then would the points have just been lost?

Because they're already losing the points.

So I don't know.

I don't know that that...

So I do agree with Misgana because of that point.

I don't know that it's the job of the filmmaker to necessarily carry the audience along, right?

I feel like the job of the filmmaker is to tell the best story that they want to tell.

And I think, like, if there was...

If it felt like these two people were even in the same plane at any point in time, right?

Then, like, I would have enjoyed Pedro better.

I never thought she was going to be with Pedro.

Like, it was also clear that they're not meant to be together.

And, like, that was when I was like, oh, this is not a three-way film.

This is not a love triangle.

This is a love triangle.

It didn't feel like that at all.

I'm not gonna lie.

I thought there was a chance.

I thought Pedro and her had a chance.

I'm not gonna lie, because of what she was saying in the first half of the movie.

She emphasized that she wants to feel...

And, like I said in my Letterboxd review, the part that was played about feeling valuable and feeling like something...

Being with a guy that has money or whatever, being important to her and her goal, and that she left Chris and his character because he's broke.

Broke, yeah.

Like, I thought there was a chance, because he courted her.

That's not right.

He courted her and he said, I want you.

Is this what you want?

Do you want to date seriously?

They went on a series of dates that made me think, okay, she's coming.

She's showing up.

She's coming and hanging out with him over and over again.

She slept with him.

She had a horrible relationship with him.

I thought there was an immediate chance, but because their relationship was so dull, so dull that we didn't even get to see any...

We got to see a little bit of the chemistry, but after they had sex, that just fell apart.

We didn't really get to see that tension that existed, but there was no emotional tangibility between them.

Whereas the other guy, something happens, she calls him.

She calls him, yeah.

This is going on, or he shows up and she's really excited because she wants to spend time with him.

She wants to talk to him about things.

You said that she slept together.

Actually, she slept with his house.

She was attracted to his house.

Maybe we'll do some shots where he's trying to kiss her.

She's looking at him.

She's looking at him.

I think she was like, she needs...

Yeah, I think a very good point, as we're talking about this character exploration thing, kind of similar to Steve and Banky, I kind of felt like she was not going to be picking Pedro pretty quick into the movie.

That, the dinner scene where everybody loved and, you know, they're like, oh, it was so intimate, like, she knows how to block, like, you know, it's all great.

For me, it kind of just explored more of her character.

Banky and I talked about this earlier, about how the, like, five minutes into the movie, the way she's talking about her clients, the way she's talking about, quote, unquote, the math.

Someone who, and I like films where the characters make consistent decisions with who they have introduced us to.

The math would have never worked with her and Pedro Pascal, which is what she kind of said throughout the movie.

The math worked with her partner because similar upbringing, similar education, similar passions.

And early on, you know, we had, like, two Chekhov's guns, but even, like, the earlier foreshadow where she was like, yeah, where he asked whether you think we're soulmates.

So that aligning with the math in my head was like, okay, yeah, this is, this is, this is locked out.

This is, you know, like, it's like, when, it's like when you're at a party and like, you know, you see maybe like a girl you've been talking to for a while and you've seen another guy talk to her, you're like, okay, just have fun.

You get what I mean?

I mean, I'm nice, I'm nice, I'm nice, you get what I mean?

This is crazy, this is crazy.

I thought there was a chance, like in my mind, I thought this was like gonna be a revolutionary thing for Lucy, Dakota's character, to be like, oh, sometimes the math's shown a lie.

And sometimes you just, like, I hate to reference this, I wanna say this, but you know how like, HE'S JUST NOT THAT INTO YOU, he tells her, but you're my exception.

Jesus Christ.

I was gonna be that.

Jesus Christ.

In my mind, I thought I was gonna be that.

Okay, I could have seen that.

Like, there was an immediate chance that that could have been where she says, you know, I've been thinking this is the math all along, but actually, like, this can work.

I think this can be a quitse.

I could have seen.

You know, you could go.

Yeah, I could have seen that, but I would have left the theater feeling very disappointed if that didn't happen.

Yeah, 100%.

Yeah, I could, I feel like at some point, right, it was getting there.

But when I say I couldn't see them, it's not like, oh, I couldn't see Celine writing them together.

What I meant was I couldn't physically see them together.

It didn't feel like, like because they introduced them as client, whatever customer, and the whole time, it's like she's literally analyzing him in a mathematical way, like the things that make him up, the formulas that make up the Harry as a person.

The unicorn.

Yeah, the unicorn.

That's why, that's literally the way I saw her looking at him.

And they made a point to emphasize it and emphasize it.

And that restaurant scene, which was my favorite scene in the film, even though I did not like Pedro in this at all, they were across from each other.

And we're seeing everything going on in the background or whatever.

And it just looked like, this is in my dream, I was wondering who I was supposed to be focusing on because it was a wide shot and the focus was more on the candle in the center of the table or whatever.

But in that moment, that's when I'm like, okay, these people do not look like partners.

These people do not feel like romantic.

It's a business transaction.

Yeah.

It's a, this is a client dinner.

It felt very transactional.

And it felt like that's, because that was the scene I realized, okay, they're not going to end up together because that's the danger that Celine is writing about.

She's writing about the transactional nature of contemporary beauty, right?

And she's putting on this scene to literally show that, right?

And they're talking back and forth.

And he's even saying, oh, you know, he finds love hard.

And she's like, well, love is not supposed to be hard.

Like dating is hard, but love is supposed to be easy.

Da da da da da.

And he's kind of disagreeing.

Like you're seeing them clash here and there.

And it's like, okay, yeah, they're not going to end up together.

I completely agree.

I think she goes to great lengths to show these themes of the transactional aspect of dating and how they're not going to end up together, realistically, because we see, like, there's so many scenes of expensive restaurants, expensive buildings, repetition of shopping, a lot of financial metaphors.

Him, like, she talks about, she likes the way he brings out his card, which I'm not going to lie, that triggered me a little bit.

Well, pay for the bill.

Because I always look, even though I can afford it, I just like to look and see what it is.

I do think you're him.

I think if you're him.

Without, without what you just said.

Fair enough, fair enough.

Yeah, I think if you're him, you can just do the once.

You can do the once.

But you know, sometimes it's just, it's never like I can't afford it, it's just a curiosity.

Like, how much am I getting billed?

Do you get me?

But still.

When I go to group dinners, I don't, I just pull my card and just let it go.

I just don't want to know how much I'm spending.

To be honest.

It's not even like, oh, like, I just like, take it.

That's fair.

That's fair.

I think something very interesting about the theme about the lack of charisma, the lack of connection.

Sorry to, before we go too far, I have so many questions.

Okay.

So we talk, you guys, you guys talked about how the math didn't work.

As Lucy, do you think she cared more about the math of the past or the math of the future?

Let me explain.

So her math with Chris Evans' character makes sense in terms of their upbringing, similar family dynamics, or whatever.

But the math she was looking for was with Pedro Pascal's kind of person, right?

Money doesn't look at the check, that kind of thing.

So to her, that was the math she was looking for, right?

So that was what she thought that was what should work.

Yeah.

Right.

But you guys seem to not agree with that.

So I was going to interject when Ofili had said that earlier, because I don't necessarily agree that the math worked with, but you guys kept talking, so I agreed it.

I don't think, and this is my interpretation, I don't think the math worked with Chris either.

I think Celine is saying that there should not be math.

There should be no math.

There should be no math in the concept of dating, because they literally talk about how she makes 80k, he has only 2,000.

Bro, when he said the 2,000 thing, I was like, God damn, like, get your bread up, bro.

That's crazy.

You're 36.

36 in New York.

I lived in New York, bro nobody-

Sounds like, some of you have not tried to be actors in London.

On New York.

That's what it sounds like right now.

You guys have never chased your dreams.

Come on.

Come on.

You guys have never-

I'm sorry, no.

I felt like Chris Evans in this film.

I do not want to chase my dreams.

With 2k in my-

But yeah, I think the math, like they talk about, okay, I have, I'm making 80k, da-da-da, how we supposed to have kids, how we supposed to do this, right?

The math doesn't work and the resolution for that is, he goes on about, okay, he's going to pick up this, he's going to start doing all of this to make it work almost.

But I think Celine is saying that the math also doesn't work, but we're not supposed to be, that's not supposed to be formula for this.

It's supposed to be love.

Like she's saying love is the answer.

So that's my resolution for her.

I don't think, that's not.

Okay, that's my interpretation, it was my interpretation.

That's cool.

I don't think that we are trying to sell love.

Absolutely not.

What?

No.

So what do you think she's selling?

No, she's not.

Okay, I think she's selling the idea of picking and choosing what's right for you.

That's how I understood it, because she introduced Violet, the person that was getting married.

She chose to be valuable in her relationship.

That was what she wanted.

When she looked at her sister, her sister was jealous that her brother-in-law is different.

He's better, whatever, compared to her husband.

That's the value that she wants to hold in the relationship that she wants to have.

Right?

She followed that, she got married.

That's the marriage that she chose.

And then you see people like Sophie, who's chasing love, who's chasing companionship, it has not gotten it.

Even though she has this calculation of hers, he needs to be this, he needs to do this, he needs to do whatever.

And that has never been reached.

So every time it has not been reached, she compromises, compromises, she compromises.

And then at the end, you see like she compromises, and she finds somebody at the end.

Same for Lucy.

Lucy's compromise is love.

She wants love.

If she wanted money, if she wanted to be valuable, she could have stayed with Pedro.

And that would have, Henry, that would have been it.

And that's the value that she wanted in the relationship.

But she wanted companionship or romance, romantic relationship that had love within it.

Without money.

Even if it comes down to it.

Without the goals that she wanted, with the arguments that she's going to have with him about paying for parking and things and so forth.

So you're saying that she's not selling love in the film, but with respect to Lucy, Lucy's value was love.

And so that's what Lucy picked.

Okay, because if you say she's not selling love at all, my retort to that is what purpose did the first man serve?

No, she was just sharing.

I think what Celine was sharing is materialist things make us compromise in relationship, whatever that looks like.

Money, upbringing, degree, how tall he is, how short he is, how skinny she is, how fat she is, whatever it is.

And that compromise or that materialist thing is determining our romantic fixtures and relations that we have.

And she explores it with so many people in the movie, even with the people in the beginning days of time.

That's what the message is for me.

Yeah.

I'm going to be honest here.

I think the movie is more so asking you, what is more important to you?

That emotional compatibility, honesty or performance.

It can, as Misgana said, it could be performance of femininity, performance of masculinity, performance of financial stability.

All of that.

Cool.

It is pick one.

And oftentimes, the performance runs out.

When she talks about the grave buddy, when she talks, I think she sees a very unhappy life as she talks about those things.

And that is the compromise for quote unquote stability.

And also, to go back to that point about HE'S NOT THAT INTO YOU, insane, insane throw in there.

I just want to let you guys know.

I'm so sorry.

Fucking insane.

But quite honestly, I also feel like there is, the film is also talking about, there is like a, like, obviously the movie is about modern dating.

It's like a very deep critique of modern dating.

But it seems like we've kind of devolved into like this kind of, like we're not looking at being authentic selves anymore.

We're looking for someone who's going to save us.

It's like loss of independence for someone who says, I'll make an exception for you.

You're not usually my type.

But I will, you know, you're so special.

You know, instead of seeking out what is right for you and what makes sense with you.

And like I feel like for Lucy as well throughout the film, she's like, yeah, this doesn't make sense.

I don't even know, bro.

Like I, like, and I think the, again, our Chekhov's Gone thing towards the end with the, you know, the scars.

Before I knew it was like the surgery, you get me?

Before I knew it was surgery.

I was like, yeah, like, we're seeing scars.

She's seeing scars.

She doesn't know, she doesn't know, bro.

This is another reminder that she doesn't know anything about him.

Yeah.

And he's not saying anything.

Whereas Chris Evans' character who within five seconds, he's told you he's a struggling actor and he has to, he has like five dollars to his name.

Do you get me?

His parents are fighting.

He's running this.

He's doing this.

Like you constantly learn about his character much more than I want to know.

Because, Jesus Christ, that roommate situation is scary as hell.

That's bad.

Also, I thought the guy had moved out.

Why is his fiance there?

Like, bro, he's here.

You're in control of the apartment in the north.

I know, bro.

Come on, you're not moving out, bro.

You're not moving out.

So, Ifili, if you remember one second, one more thing.

In regards to your other point about the math of the past versus the math of the future, I think the math of the past is very different now, though, or the math of the future with your character.

Because she is no longer in a position where she is struggling and he is struggling.

She makes 80K a year and is apparently pretty good at her job.

By the end of this, we don't foresee a promotion, but we can see some kind of sustainability because, again, this profession, the matchmaking profession, it's something that's going to be forever.

And as Pedro says, you're charging it as a necessity with luxury pricing.

So, I think she can, she's not the broke Lucy in a broke relationship.

She can be the same Lucy, but her man is broke, you get me?

And a lot of us know mad women that have been breadwinners in their relationships.

Yeah.

So, my biggest issue, and I don't know if this is too early to bring it up, with this film is that I never fully buy into Lucy's transformation.

Concentrally, I understand it.

I just never believe that the woman that we see at the beginning of this film is someone that chooses to marry Chris Evans within the space of a month or two months or whatever.

I don't know how to put it.

Like I said in my Letterboxd review, this movie ends up aligning with all of my own personal and relationship politics.

So I'm predisposed to be like, I'm someone who I eschew conservatively.

I hate when someone is like, from both sides, men or women, when the materialistic side comes up.

So this movie is already kind of playing my wavelength there.

But I never believed that Lucy was romantic in this film.

Or that she, I was like, yeah, it's dumb the way you're talking about people are stats and like, that you only want things that fit.

But I never thought like, I don't know, I never thought that if the love came into her life, she would be swept off her feet.

Chris Evans, I think is a romantic film.

I think he's someone that is like, he's Hugh Grant, he's Colin Firth, he's like, he's in that film.

But like for her, I just, I never, so when she does choose him and she chooses to marry him, I'm like, okay, I'm happy for you guys.

But like, I, then put it this way, I am not convinced that they're gonna have a good life.

I'm not convinced that she's changed from who she was.

She says she hasn't changed though.

Yeah, in the film, she says she hasn't changed.

I'm still going to be XYZ person.

I'm gonna be arguing.

So she'll still fight about the remote parking.

But the difference is, I actually like you.

I know you.

We have something.

I think Pedro Pascal, everyone's saying he did a horrible job in this movie.

I think this nigga did, he deserved an Oscar.

For being so.

Thank you.

Thank you.

For being so distant, I'm lacking so much charisma.

Insane words.

It's intentional.

You know, absolutely.

Like I said, it's to me, like, because Pedro Pascal has so much charisma.

During the film, I think during the press tour, it mentioned that she didn't let any of the characters talk to each other, off set.

Like they were instructed not to build any banter, not to have any, you know, inside jokes, nothing.

Don't talk to each other.

Come to work, do your lines, go home.

No chatter.

And Petron did what he needed to do.

Like, I can't emphasize enough.

People, like, romanticized the ideology that exists of what they wanted him to be.

And then they were so upset.

They were so, so upset that Celine didn't just feed into their, like, stupid dream.

Yeah, it's so, it's so...

A story is being told.

It's told so perfectly.

Like, I don't know what, like...

He did what he needed to do.

He gave her some sort of thing to lust over, which was his money.

And then when she saw it at his full, glorious amount, she got his keys.

She could go and leave whenever she pleases.

And then you see that it just, after that, everything fades.

Like, there's nothing...

He can't even read when she's having a bad day on her face.

Yeah.

I hope when I'm bad at my job, like, they give me as much grace as you guys are giving Pedro Pascual right now.

It's blazing.

Okay, so you think he was bad in this film?

I didn't think he was.

I never saw it.

I said that already.

I said in my review, the chemistry between them felt like sandpaper on his skin.

I think that was intentional.

I get that you're saying it's intentional, right?

But I think if you're showing two people that are spending this much time together, even if it's a poll, even if they're friends, right?

And there's just no romantic chemistry.

I think the critique again is still that.

Wait, let me let me land now.

I felt like if you're progressing, right?

In some way, I should feel some progression happening.

Whatever, even if like you're showing me that you guys are no good together, let me see, at least there's some progression happening.

The way I felt about them when they had that first meet, that cute meet, whatever, right?

Was the way I felt about them at the breakup.

Like he's doing that weird thing where he's bending down the high, and I don't know if it's supposed to be funny.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, no, come on.

I'll put it off of that.

That's the best part of the film.

I was just like, n***a, stand up and go away, bro.

That's how it goes.

For the people that think that this movie is a rom-com, that was the one joke in this movie.

I laughed twice in this film.

It was that and when him and the Cinephiles are shaking their hands.

She said even at the last scene where they were talking, she was like, I felt closest to you now because of this.

He was not like, the romantic intimacy was not there.

And the emotional intimacy was not there.

Even though he was spending dashing money left and right, he's buying her flowers.

I just want to say, it's mad funny that we have three guys on the podcast.

And none of us are the ones bringing up the gold digger point.

I love that.

I love that we do have.

I did not say, oh yeah, please.

I did not say she was a gold digger.

She just loves someone.

You would have to go out of your way to call her a gold digger.

She turned him down so many times.

You would have to be...

No, she literally was like, why are you with me?

No, no, no.

Multiple times, multiple times.

So he said, you know, I saw this video that said, let my woman take my money.

And I think Pedro captured that really, really well.

And I'm so happy that he did.

Because, you know.

Yeah.

I mean, the thing about...

Maybe it's just me liking Pedro.

I don't think I can say that he did a bad job.

Absolutely.

Like we said, the whole thing is that it's intentional.

I do wish that wasn't the intention.

I do wish this was a movie about two couples with at least varying levels of chemistry.

I wish that was the film we watched.

It wasn't.

And obviously, I can judge the film on the film that we did see.

And I think Celine...

I personally think the reason she did that is so it could be obvious.

Yeah.

It's very clear polar opposites.

It is you have chemistry in one, you trust one, but he has no money.

There's one, stability.

He has all the money.

But no chemistry at all.

And Steve, I agree with you that obviously it's not the director's job or writer's job to hold the audience's hand.

Yes.

But I do think that the fact that audiences want her to be with the man who she has no chemistry with but has money, instead of the one that she does love and he's doing it, he's trying his best or whatever, it shows the importance, the need for this.

Absolutely.

Right.

Yes.

It shows that she needs to.

Yes.

She's a whole new generation.

I hear that point and okay, I guess I agree with you on that.

Yes, she had to dumb down the chemistry.

But my question or my response is, it would have made for a better conflict.

Because again, I did not feel there was any conflict.

It would have made for a better romantic feel.

I mean, the conflict is with herself.

That's what I'm saying.

It would have made for a better conflict.

Better conflict on like, they need to fight over her or like-

No, no, no.

Lucy's internal conflict.

She had a good something to think about.

I'm sorry.

I think there was a really, really good internal conflict.

We haven't yet go into that point though.

I actually want to ask you guys a question in regards to, I completely forgot what the question was because of this internal conflict thing.

Let's talk about the elephant in the room.

The situation in which her math and the sexual assault, what do you guys think about that plot line?

The return of John Magoro.

I'm glad that I caught that.

Did you know I caught that?

Yeah, his voice.

I was like, I can't believe this is how it is in this.

I've seen Past Lives so many times that I was like, that's it.

I also just finished the agency end of last year, so I'm fully in John McGurr's case.

It's crazy.

I think, okay, I said it in my review already, but I think Celine, and that's something I understood is important, is dating and putting yourself out there takes courage, and it takes risks.

I think Celine explores it really well, but very brutally, I understand that it's very triggering and sensitive.

I was in awe when I saw it happen.

I was just like, oh my God, I hope not, but it did.

I think it's really beautiful how she said it takes courage.

That girl, Zoë kept putting herself out there.

Absolutely.

She kept putting herself out there.

She kept putting herself out there.

Maybe the math she calculated, Lucy calculated felt right.

There are a lot of situations where people will be like, oh, I just never assume them to be this way or that way, or understood them to be this way and that way.

I think it takes courage to put yourself out there and to be in a risky situation, a vulnerable situation, say, hey, this is who I am.

Do you want to share this life with me?

And the other person to do the same?

A lot of people take that vulnerability as something to manipulate and tangle over.

And that man did.

And he did it to capacity that he did.

Sophie's anger felt displaced, but I think you would have to be...

Yeah.

It felt unfair, but understandable.

Yeah.

I don't want to victim blame and say, hey, she's wrong.

I think she didn't know who to point finger to, and she pointed to Lucy, but later on she said that Lucy was just there, and she understood him to be who he was after they went on a date.

Yeah.

Not to undercut that incredible point from Misgana, but I just remember the third time I laughed in this film is when Sophie is talking to Lucy, and she's like, I am trying to settle.

She's like, this is me trying to settle, can't we just get me somebody?

In that dinner scene, the, your valuable scene, which again, I was thinking about when you guys were talking earlier, it's shot so well, because I remember I was looking, I was like, are you going to give us a close up?

Are you going to give us one close up?

She was like, no, no, no, because this scene is not intimate.

It's not.

This scene is going to stay, it's going to stay cold throughout.

Because I was thinking of the Heat scene, right?

The dinner scene in HEAT.

And that scene is...

I'm always thinking about the Heat scene.

To put it in context, I'm always thinking about Heat.

The Heat scene on your toes, just like that.

Yeah.

Well, that scene is all like close ups.

There's no wide in that scene.

Because that scene is a very intimate scene.

These two characters are basically brothers, lovers, whatever you want to call them.

But this scene is like, no, it's just a boardroom.

We're just going to see them doing a board meeting.

I was like, oh, there's nothing to miss here.

But I remember thinking during that scene, when they're just going off back and forth about valuable and stats and unicorn.

I was like, you're giving all these stats, but you don't know who, one, Harry is, or who, two, your clients are.

You don't know if they're good people.

They could be 5'11, pay salary, good hairline.

But you don't know what they are beyond that.

You don't know how they, do they demean women?

Do they gaslight women?

Do they shout when they're angry?

That's what I was thinking in that scene.

I was like, you're only using superficial stats.

And then obviously later the film is like, yeah, this guy was good on paper, but then he assaulted this one.

Yeah.

I don't know if it's naive from Lucy.

I don't know the fact that maybe it's the industry, like her boss said, it's just the fact that you're not even considering that, it's something with online dating, I guess, like women, God bless them.

You're like swiping on Hinge or whatever, but that man could literally be a serial killer.

But then if you're the person who is in charge of making the match, surely you have to do a bit more.

I don't know what it is.

I don't know if you care, Private Investigator, we have to do a bit more there.

I know.

I hear what you're saying.

But there's so much you can do.

Yes.

I think for me, my problem was Lucy's transformation was triggered by her so-called transformation towards the end, or re-aligning of her world-view, was triggered by this event.

And it caused a crazy crisis in her character.

For me, it made no fucking sense.

Based on someone who is really good at the job, you are great at the math.

She had done nine weddings, matches leading to nine weddings.

We're not even talking about the matches leading to relationships and dating, whatever, but nine weddings, great deal.

We saw later in the film, somebody got four weddings and they were celebrating crazy.

I want to say, if you are that good at the job, you would understand the risks associated with your job.

I, example, being in finance, I'm not going to act like I don't know what insider trading is.

I'm not going to act like it's not a potential, it's not something that could happen.

If that happens, or one of my coworkers, or one of my clients gets arrested by the SEC, I'm not even like, oh my God, oh my God, what's going on?

Like, it should not shock you the way it shook her.

It should not, I don't know, it just pissed me off.

It felt like it did.

I think she believes so much in the numbers, that she doesn't see, like, when you're good on paper, she thinks you're good in real life.

Like the numbers are her gospel.

Yeah, and when you're thinking about, like, somebody who has 200k salary, a doctor, this and that, you would assume, assume, keyword, that they have a brain that thinks and that is educated enough to not cause harm into somebody in this way.

And her clients, yeah, surely, she has had many clients before.

If you're paying for this kind of service, why would, like, there's this assumption, oblivious assumption, of course, that if you're paying for this kind of service, why would you be, put yourself in this situation?

Because she's not, like, she's not matching clients for dating.

She's matching clients to marry each other.

That's what she is.

So...

It's dating, but hoping they marry.

It's the idea, I think it's based on the idea that only a certain kind of person reaps.

Yes, I get what you're saying.

She doesn't think that person...

Obviously, she doesn't think that...

Wait, Misgana, she's going to squeeze her face.

Like, the wrong idea that only a certain kind of person reaps.

Okay, yes.

We're equating certain checked boxes, good heights, a 200k salary, advanced degree, with being a good person, which I think is one of the core things of this film.

Exactly.

I think you're convinced yourself of our point, Ofili.

So she equates those things with being a good person, and she thinks a good person doesn't do those things.

But now she's realized that those things don't mean you're a good person.

Even if you're a good person on paper, you could still do those things.

It is still incredibly shocking to me that she did not have the foresight to consider the risks associated with her role.

Again, that's intentional.

Sorry to say the point about Celine being a writer, but I don't necessarily think that the fact that it was shocking to her is lazy.

I feel like she's good at her job.

They make the point to emphasize that she's very good at her job.

She's the best at her job.

Some of these things that we're considering as huge risks such as insider trading or whatever, they're not at the forefront of our head because she feels like she's able to, she has a higher level of intuition or whatever, and she's able to match people even before.

You know what I mean?

So these things are not necessarily on the forefront of our mind.

She's not so worried about this risk, and it's never happened to her as well.

She didn't even know it was that common.

She was talking to her boss that made her realize, this happens to everyone but for her, it just felt very, anyway.

I would blame her boss for, I think also the company within the company, it's not like they talked about it before.

So it has happened in the company, but it's never been discussed.

When she found that out, she went crazy and couldn't believe that this can happen.

And maybe I would go to an extent to say, maybe that changed her point of view of men with money, and maybe that probably convinced her, maybe she should look into...

Yeah, I think it changed her point of view of the stat sheet.

I think that's the information that you were talking about.

That's the point.

Yeah.

Can we not...

I also want to say, we can go.

Oh, sorry.

Can we not gloss over how good fucking Zoë Winters was?

Yeah, I was going to talk about that.

Yeah.

She was my personal favorite in the cast.

I know the restaurant scene is my favorite scene.

I know of that, but I felt like also sidebar, Celine must be a huge Succession fan.

Yeah, two of them.

Two of them.

I saw Dasha and I saw Zoë and I'm like, oh, someone watches the Succession.

And I also saw the Easter egg, like the play outside the theater, by Celine Song.

So I'm like, okay, she's, you know, and then the John Magoro one.

But yeah, Sophie, I thought that plot line was very necessary because one, like we've just all talked about the realigning, but also this is more because of me being in New York.

I feel like I can think of all the female, all of my female friends in New York.

If you were to break up with your partner and you had no place to leave, you stopped at your apartment or whatever, you're most likely going to call a girl or a friend to go stay with.

You're not going to call an ex of many, many years.

I feel like that's just a common thing.

We never really got to see Sophie involved.

And this is my own criticism of the film.

We never got to see Lucy involved with female friends.

It's so hard with her co-worker.

Wait, yeah.

Does she have friends?

I mean, in her life, though, you can't really say that.

Guys, can I, can I, can I land, please, now?

Sorry.

It felt like back, like I thought back to, as I was watching, I thought back to Past Lives and how it felt like Nora in Past Lives was, I don't want to say male centered because she is in between two men, but it felt like she was kind of pulled around in different directions, right, with the men in her life.

Her father moved and then she just moved and she had this boyfriend and she just went with him.

And then she met this man at the retreat and she just, like we never got to see her as a female friend.

And I know Ofili is going to say, I like to make everything misogynistic, so I am not calling Celine Song, I mean, wait, guys, please, I'm not calling Celine Song a woman hater, but I'm just like, it will be nice to see her lead woman, her heroines, you know, have some solid friendships.

So for me, when Sophie showed up and when seeing Lucy's reaction to that whole thing was very important for me because it's like, Past Lives, I was asking for that, and leading up to that, I was asking for that, and it felt like, okay, this is me seeing that now.

So yeah, all in all, like, Zoë's acting, the realigning, you know, friendship, whatever, it felt good, it felt like the most important and self-loving, for the film.

I respect what you said, but I would argue with, this is, like, specifically Lucy's romance life and her work life has nothing to do, I don't wanna say, like, she doesn't have friends or whatever, or she's male-centered, I think that's far, far, far from where she should be.

I think it's just, we're just getting a half cut, a specific cut of a portion of her life, so.

Yeah.

And we see her, like, hanging around with her work friends and talking about work, because her work is related to her romantic presence, so.

And that's, and that's fair, like, it might be far-fetched, I'm saying it would be nice to see, right?

And then we saw.

And then we saw, and it was nice, that's it.

Okay, I guess.

What I'm gonna say is that, as long as both Celine Song's films have passed the Bechdel Test, you can't really come chat to me now.

Just saying.

This definitely passed, right?

This passed.

This passed very well.

Yeah.

This passed.

Wait, are we 100% sure about that?

Yeah, yeah.

Like, what's up with my head?

No, it did.

It did, because they were talking about, even easy scene, career.

Career progression between her and her boss.

Oh, okay.

That's an easy one.

Because what I was thinking of was about sexual assault, or get married to a man.

I was trying to figure out, was there career progression was good or not?

Yeah, like, just going to say.

Actually, she was talking to the bridesmaids about the bride and also about matchmaking.

So I guess, yeah.

Yeah, there are multiple scenes.

I will say, Steve, what you, so a couple of minutes ago, Banky told me to look outside of my friend group.

So I too will tell you, look outside of your friend group.

Majority of people do not have a ton of friends.

Majority of people, their coworkers are their only friends.

In a non-traditional work environment and a very traditional work environment, this is what you would see.

Like, her coworkers being her friends, them celebrating together, doing the whole cake and champagne thing, sitting on the kumbaya.

Like, yeah, your boss calling you on your day off and going the extra mile to stop you from quitting your job.

These are friendships.

I'm just saying, in case you're like, just saying, these are very good friendships, these are very good examples.

I would agree with Steve in the portion, I think I apply it in my personal life.

So I do agree that like your work people are your work people.

Absolutely.

You would like to.

The line I draw between work and like is so fucking clear.

I would say that that is very, that's very immigrant though.

That is very immigrant.

And I would say new, yeah, is very immigrant, is very new age immigrant.

No, I don't think it's immigrant.

I don't think it's a, I feel like-

It's a immigrant, so let it be immigrant.

I think it's not-

Oh, no, no, no, no.

The American idea, the American culture, is specifically at a job you like, specifically as a job you like.

Well, I mean, in fact, extend it to a job you don't hate.

You are friends with your coworkers.

Friends?

Yes.

That's good for you.

Like that's very progressive of you.

Progressive is crazy.

I can't be friends with 50-year-old people.

I'm sorry.

Again, that's the industry again.

Yeah, but Lucy's job is like all women, all the same age group.

Yeah, that's fair, but like I would...

Before we move on, can I just, because I don't want to lose the opportunity, I need to talk about Chris Evans.

I'm sorry.

Like as someone who's been holding on to the stocks.

Yes.

I knew this was going to be a tough year for me.

It was a big year because he had this and he had the Coen Brother film.

With Margaret Qualley, HONEY DON'T!

I was like, look, we need, look, you guys, I don't know how you could have what Chris Evans in 2014 with Captain America: The Winter Soldier and Snowpiercer, and I'll be like, this is the guy I'm going to put stocks in.

It's just a rough idea.

I haven't seen any of his films.

I haven't seen GHOSTED, I didn't see RED ONE.

But there were all choices that made sense.

An action comedy with Ana De Armas makes sense.

Like a blockbuster with The Rock makes sense on paper.

Like these things make sense on paper.

A drama with Emily Blunt makes sense.

They just didn't work out, unfortunately.

So I'm just very happy that I have won, I have a win.

I don't think anybody can be like, he's not the best part of this film.

I think his last non-marvel film was KNIVES OUT in 2017.

KNIVES OUT, yeah.

What about 2019?

2017?

Calm down, 2019 is not that far.

I was like, don't call me old.

The problem is that he came out after ENDGAME, so people were like, oh, his post-MCU career is going to be incredible.

And then obviously he had a few, but I'm just like, we got this one.

If we get a next one, if we get another one with the Coen brother film, we might be putting it in momentum.

Just saying, Chris Evans' stans were there.

I will always ship Chris Evans in Romantic movie.

I will die on the hill of saying, Romance and Chris Evans go well and well in hand and watch all these movies in RomCom.

He does it so well.

Yeah, absolutely.

Regardless of the person he's doing, his chemistry partner, every time it works out.

To your point earlier, I think it's because obviously he's good-looking, he's charismatic, but he also has that puppy dog thing of him.

Yeah.

He also plays broken down loser very well.

Please.

He wants to root for him.

He's not Chris Pine or Ryan Gosling in terms of rum-tongued fad, right?

Sorry.

He's attractive and good-looking, but also could be believably an out-of-luck actor who lives in an apartment.

You get what I'm trying to say?

If Ryan Gosling was in this film, we're like, I don't believe that.

You're not living life.

I think it's also why he's good as a pre-Serum Steve Rogers, because he's like, oh, this is a guy who is struggling.

He's a guy who is second to the Winter Soldier.

You can't believe that because he's able to portray that.

Then he also has a dark side, like in Snowpiercer.

I think he's brilliant, I'm telling you.

I think he has a really good range.

But I'm also thinking, I know, just to change topics really quickly, Banky, last time I was on your pod and we talked, we talked about how current state of the world sometimes influences where we see movies going.

We do this every time, quite audibly.

So do you think current state of the economy influenced this movie to be made?

Do you think we're going to start seeing more romantic films focused on, I guess, with more of a critique or focused on more of a economic structure rather than like a poetic one?

I mean, considering how this movie is about to be received, maybe not.

Who really wants to touch that?

I don't know.

I think it's...

So this is a good, actually a good segue because one of my notes about this film was like, the reason I think it's so different from PAST LIVES is that in PAST LIVES, or rather in this film, she had a thesis that she wanted to talk about.

In PAST LIVES, it was more about the journey to the end of the story.

If you ask people about PAST LIVES, nobody even talks about the end.

Obviously, the ending is heartbreaking, but not heartbreaking, emotional.

People are talking about the emotional journeys of the three main characters.

It's like the decisions that Nora had to make, or his songs troubles, or the injury on my girl and apparently this guy just come from another continent to steal your girl.

But in this movie, I think she's like, I want to talk about dating, materialism and like taking a checkbox and then she works towards her thesis.

I think like two different points in this story.

So I think to your question, if somebody, Greta Gerwig for example, wants to write about relationship, I think she's also she's been doing that for years, right?

So like, I, this is a romantic comedy, so I don't think there will be romantic comedies like this.

Right?

Yeah.

So there might be romantic dramas, yeah, but they probably wouldn't be summer films.

I also have a good question.

Do we think this was a good movie to come out in the summer?

Yeah, I think so.

Yeah.

Okay.

From the beginning of summer, yeah, perfect.

I think, I mean, it's marriage time, you know, people are getting married.

Reflection period.

Very, very.

You know, we're all outside now, so, you know, I would say.

Is this a movie that you come out thinking like, oh, I love love?

Absolutely not.

I think it's a movie that makes you break up with your partner.

Damn.

Yeah.

I think it makes you have a position where you have to reflect.

That's your sound bite.

That's a crazy statement to make.

I feel like this is a movie where you are forced to reconcile with thoughts about whether you're partner or not.

Who I'm with is who I really want to be with for the rest of my life.

Whoa.

What?

I get what you're saying.

I get what you're saying.

It's tough.

Yeah.

I get what you're saying.

But isn't it more like internal battle to yourself of like, did I let some material things affect my decision?

Absolutely.

But the result is still the same though.

Yeah.

But like you wouldn't look at your partner, but rather you look internal.

I think for me, it made me look a little bit internal where I say, did I, do I value things like whatever to-

Okay.

I think we're saying the same thing.

But I feel like you want me to say it like, oh, should I end this relationship because my partner deserves better than me selecting them for material gain?

No, no, no, no.

I'm saying you're looking within and be like, did the factors of my material choosing decide who I'm with right now?

Just calling those out.

That's what I'm saying.

That's what we're saying.

The only difference is, if the answer to your question, the question you just asked is no, Ofili is saying that you break consciousness.

Yes.

We're saying the same thing.

Interesting.

Okay.

To answer your first question, Banky, I feel like if anything, Past Lives should have been later in the year.

Because I'm one of those people that thinks the academy, and this is not because of the market, just solely based on the academy, because I wanted Past Lives to win an Oscar.

I feel like The Academy favors films that come out later in the year, because they're most-

Yeah, this is-

And PAST LIVES was like a prose, because it was semi-autobiography, right?

It was more prose-y.

While MATERIALISTS is, it has a topic.

It's a study.

It's a study of concepts or whatever.

Yeah.

We haven't mentioned that she worked as a matchmaker, Celine Song.

That's cool.

We need to quickly touch on audience reaction.

Yeah, we can.

We can.

Okay.

Okay.

Move.

Okay.

Let me do some stretching.

You guys know I feel very sorry about this already.

So, you know-

Let me-

Okay.

Come on.

Let's hear it.

Let's hear it.

All I'm going to say is, I think like I said before, Lucy's story is not your reality, and I think people-

I think when it comes to dating people, society is very sensitive to that topic.

Anything that does not fit a shoe box that's not fitting, based on media presence and whatnot, pop the balloon kind of shit and stuff like that, like it just doesn't do well.

So because of it, I think people don't-

Like I said, Celine doesn't need to feed into people's delusion, but at the same time, people need to stop and be like, oh, this is Lucy's story, what can I learn?

A lot of people didn't do that.

I think people were offended because of PAST LIVES, how great that was.

They thought it was going to keep the same methods and like forms.

And I don't like the idea of fitting directors into a box.

I think she does really well in terms of telling a story, maybe in a different light.

Three characters seem kind of three-way as PAST LIVES, but I think she does a great job.

But I'm really surprised that the audience did not take it well.

OK.

So can we make a distinction when we're having this discussion, when we're mentioning audiences?

Do we mean Twitter 21-year-olds?

Because I don't think Celine Song is going to see those takes.

I'm strictly saying Letterboxd, Rotten Tomato.

It's the same people, though.

Twitter has entered Letterboxd.

That's why Wicked was averaging 4.9 stars.

Twitter has entered Letterboxd.

So I don't think...

Obviously, this movie is not a runaway success, the way PAST LIVES was critically ranked.

And I think that's fair.

I think even in this discussion, we've all had criticisms for this film.

I like this film.

I really like this film.

The more I talk about it with you guys, I might just go back and give it a heart, actually.

I really like this film, but there are things that I'm just like, I don't know if I believe you, I don't know if I agree.

I think I remember I was looking for, waiting for an emotional cut.

That was the one thing I was waiting for in this film, which was very in-line with Past Lives.

I mean, that was unfair.

But I was like, I wanted one last thing that just hit me right in the feels, and I never got that.

So I think it's fair for people to be like, this is a good movie, but we have some notes.

Now, when I heard that people hated this film, I was like, that does not make sense, because there is nothing in this film strong enough to really listen to hatred.

Like, it's not, because this was before I realized why they hated the film.

I was like, this is not a movie that...

Like, you know, when you want to hate a film, it means like there's something in it that like makes you visibly angry.

It's like, this movie is very safe.

There's nothing here to hate.

And then I realized why they hated the film.

I was like, I can't take you seriously.

I'm sorry.

If you hate the film because you think it's pushing the poor man propaganda, then we're not having a discussion.

So I think in terms of the real, and whatever I go like is I start sounding very judgmental and pretentious.

In terms of the real audience, I think like Celine would be like, okay, maybe some things didn't work.

Maybe I need to look back on it.

Maybe.

Like it's not a perfect film.

PAST LIVES is a perfect film.

This is not a perfect film.

But like if we're going for, if we want to talk about Twitter, because again, like as you said, I have Popcorn for Dinner podcast, which available platforms go look at it.

But what that means is that my Twitter for you page is a mess, of like everybody's film and TV opinion.

So I've seen so many things.

I am constantly angry.

I have seen sin as takes that made me want to kill myself.

Yes.

We talked about that last episode.

Oh my God, the takes on Twitter are bad.

They're so bad.

I forget that.

I forget people are children.

So, yeah, I think the main thing about that is like, when we realize they're young, and I think a lot of people that are young, Shady now, As Ofili mentioned to me, was like, we are going into a more conservative society.

Yeah.

Those young women, women I talk to, I have a few in my life that are a bit younger.

When I talk to them, they're all looking for those kinds of things as well.

A man who like.

Provides.

Yes, like a man who doesn't look at the wallets, who doesn't look at the bill, rather.

They want the things that, their views are more in line with our parents' views, some of our views.

I was like, oh, we're just going back around to where we were before.

Again, I'm not trying to say there's anything wrong with that.

I think if two people that like same thing find each other, that's perfect.

But I realize that it makes sense that those people will be like, no, you should be with Pedro Pascual, because they don't see the lack of love.

What they see is the presence of things.

Yeah.

I make so much sense.

And that's why this film is not, in terms of Lucy's point, this film is not even playing both sides.

This film is very clean, like one person is better, because there is no, like, back to lots of rehashing discussion we had earlier.

So I see people, that's why I asked that woman the other day, I was like, how old are you, before you tell me your thoughts on this film?

And she was like, yeah, her friends, like, all wanted Pedro Pascal to, like, be the one we had at the end, because, like, one is Pedro Pascal, and two, like, that's what they're looking for in men.

They're looking for men who have things, right?

And I guess maybe, maybe when they grow older, they will be looking for men who can actually, they can actually talk to, and they will actually call and tell when their work is going bad.

Maybe not, maybe society is going to just go in this direction.

I don't know.

But it's definitely an age thing.

It's definitely a Twitter thing.

I think there's a sect of the audiences that, you know, you guys have just talked about, you know, poor man propaganda or whatever.

But I also think there's a sect of people, also online, that were prepared to hate on this film.

And I know that because when the trailer dropped, I was defending the film already.

People were hated.

People hated it.

The first bad thing I saw was...

The teaser.

Yeah, yeah.

When did the teaser go bad?

I remember this.

Exactly.

You remember, there was a lot of this negative already before the film even came out.

Some people said, these are MCU comic book, whatever characters that they had in.

They thought it was going to be a childish play or whatever.

And some people felt, you know, Celine was staying in the same box.

I was probably one of those people, of her three-way drop or whatever.

I saw someone say, "Reheating CHALLENGERS Nachos," whatever the fuck that means.

Jesus Christ.

But so I think some people were already ready to hate on this.

And then-

Also, these are three actors with haters.

Sorry to interrupt you, but these are three actors with a group of, like fan base of haters.

Yeah.

And then press, the press for the film, right before, like I think the day before the film dropped, the interview dropped where, that's why I asked you guys that icebreaker question.

That was the same question that they asked Celine, and her response was ZOOTOPIA.

And so film bros went on Twitter saying that female filmmakers don't watch good films, right?

And that all they know is fucking ZOOTOPIA.

Like they wanted her to say some-

Insane, because ZOOTOPIA is incredible but-

Exactly.

It wasn't like she didn't say it was her favorite film.

It's just, what's the last film I would want to see before that?

I mean, she wants to be...

Jesus.

I think some people were already prepared to hate on this, no matter what happened, right?

They were ready.

They had their hate already started from the teaser, from the press and all of that.

And so it just snowed, like it just bled into, you know, the way that they took in the film.

Because if you read through some of these negative feedback or whatever, there's no content, there's no real criticism of the way that we've talked about the things that we didn't like on this film.

There's no real all of that there.

It's more about, oh, pick a man in New York City that only has, like, bro, you're not even talking about structure, you're not talking about relationship, you're not talking about dynamic.

This is why I hate aggregators, rotten tomatoes, all these things, because it's just like, it just puts it together and there is no context, there's no deeper thing, right?

Yeah.

Yeah, I just, yeah, all these things, because the same person that says, also, I don't give stars on Letterboxd, I just, the star system just gives you anxiety.

For like, the same person that says, pick a man, whatever, I will give this movie like one star on Letterboxd, right?

And then, that drops his Letterboxd rating, or his Rotten Tomatoes fan rating, and it's like, well, you have no actual reason, like your reason for not liking this film is not real, it's like, dumb.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I don't know, it's like, when Ryan Coogler was mentioned posting, was it, yeah, PUSS-IN BOOTS for an Inspiration for SINNERS, nobody was saying anything.

Like, it's weird.

Exactly.

It is weird.

It is weird.

If I say it's an anti-female agenda now, they'll say that Steve, yeah, Steve go.

So I'm not going to say that.

I'm not going to say that.

I'm just going to say.

Can I say one, can I be a hater for one second?

Yeah.

I have, I have never like been on the Dakota, just cannot act straight.

But it was a lot, it was in my mind a lot during this movie.

And I would say that there are a lot of parts in this movie I was like, Dakota, what's going on?

So like a lot of the line readings seemed weird.

Like it seemed like she was reading, like reading the scripts, like to a microphone.

It was like in all their scenes, I felt like Chris Evans was the one carrying the like, and again, obviously I love Chris Evans, but like it did feel at points like she was.

I get that she's meant to be detached at some parts of the film.

I don't know, Misgana, do you have, like do you feel differently?

Was it, was there anyone that felt this way?

At points in the film, I was like, Dakota, what's going on?

Are we like, don't let me believe.

She's a salesman, you know, she has to talk as a salesman for a lot of the portion of the film.

She's selling you romance, she's selling you dinners, she's selling you this.

So, you know, the pause that she did, I think she became a human in my mind when she went to upstate with Chris and she left the sales world behind a little bit.

That's three, though, that's like becoming a human in like three of your films is tough.

I don't know what it is, but like, I think she does a good job.

I think Celine did a good job overall.

She's a winner in my books, regardless of what people think.

But I think we should talk about ratings.

Let's wrap it up.

So how we close our episodes is we give a verdict.

I know Banky just said he doesn't believe in the number system.

So yeah, I'll do it.

I'm on your podcast.

I'll do it for you.

Okay.

So I'll follow your rules.

Yeah.

But anyway, so how that works is we give a number one to 10.

You can use decimals.

That's fine.

Then we aggregate our ratings and put that on the pages, our average rating.

So if anyone wants to go first.

Decimals only like 0.5, right?

You can do whatever.

No, I'll do 0.5 just to make it.

Otherwise, I'll start doing some weird stuff.

I want to give it an 8, but I don't know if it's an 8.

So I'm really stuck between 7.5 and 8.

Oh, wow.

But like a strong, no, because so, okay.

Actually, the thing is I was trying not to do decimals.

Because it's not a 9.

We've spoken about this, but it's not a 9, right?

Okay.

Yeah.

And Steve is not in agreement.

Misgana disagrees.

I know Misgana disagrees.

That's why I'm shaking my head.

It's not because I disagree.

Oh, yes.

I was going to ask if it's hi or hello.

But I'll wait for you guys.

I'm trying to think.

Because I will say to you guys, I will say to you guys, talking about this film, with Ofili on Twitter and then with you guys here has made me like.

I was like, oh, the things that I really liked, I like a lot more now.

And the things that I didn't like, I actually see better reasoning for them.

It's like watching a movie a second time.

This is recency bias.

I'll just go 8.

I'll go 8.

I'll go 8.

That's fair.

Misgana, you're up next.

I love this movie.

I think it's very clear.

I'm a lover of this movie.

I think, I don't know what it is.

Maybe it called me out.

Maybe that's why I love it.

I think I would give it a 9.5 out of 10.

Wow.

I was waiting for that.

Yeah, that's fair.

Yeah.

So, I'm sorry, not to, because I hate the fact that we're doing this.

I'm not to compare whatever, but did you love PAST LIVES more than this?

No.

No?

Okay.

You love this more than PAST LIVES?

I love PAST LIVES more than this.

Oh, okay.

That's what he asked.

Oh, sorry.

Oh, yeah.

But you gave this a 9.5.

Yeah.

PAST LIVES would be a 10 for me.

10.

Okay.

That's fine.

If it's a 10, then that's fine.

Yeah.

I think I have New York City bias.

I know I've said New York City so many times, but I think-

Am I going to end up being the lowest?

This is interesting.

I think so, but it's fine.

I feel like this film, I know I didn't talk about this, but this film really captures the essence of New York in a way that some films really don't.

It's not about the shot of World Trade Center, Statue of Liberty.

This film feels like, which makes sense, because she moved from Toronto to New York and she lives there.

But the people in the film, the characters feel like real people in the city, the struggles, the roommates, the rich people, the fact that you guys coexist in the same space.

There's a multimillionaire and there's a brookie just existing in the same area, dating the same woman, socially speaking, from experience, but yeah.

So I feel like she got that aspect right.

And just exactly what Banky said about talking with us has made us realize certain things more.

When he said the thing about waiting for an emotional gut punch, I was also waiting for an emotional gut punch.

But I think post-film, it made me appreciate the Sophie subplot a lot more than I did during the film.

And I came to appreciate her including it more.

And that was my version of the emotional gut punch, even though it wasn't like not just the abuse, just that, adding that dynamic with Lucy.

So initially, like leaving the theater, I gave this an 8 but over the course of our conversation.

I'm like bumping that 0.5 higher.

So I'm going to go with 8.5.

Oh, damn.

I thought you were going to say 9.

No, it's not a 9 because I didn't give PAST LIVES a rating only because I thought it was a perfect film and I didn't want to subject it to a number scale.

But if I was to give PAST LIVES a rating, I probably would give it a 10.

And I think this is a considerable, like I have way more faults with this than with PAST LIVES.

So a 9 is too close for me.

It's fair.

But yeah, 8.5.

Fili.

OK.

Verdict on this is probably, I think I'm going 7.5 on this.

No, so I wasn't the lowest.

You just want to be different, bro.

Look at me.

I'm so different.

Exactly.

No, I'm not going to lie.

Oh, they're crucifying you.

They are.

They are.

But I just feel like they tried to explain away my point, which still, I'm just like, I don't see that being.

So is this still just based on that one criticism?

That one point, it's such a big flaw in her character that makes no sense.

And explaining it away by, yeah, she's so good at the job, that the people are numbers.

I'm like, yes, the people being numbers is the whole job.

That does not show that she's good at her job.

That just shows that she's doing the job.

I feel like if it's true that she, Celine, was a matchmaker, then it would make sense that her writing, someone being shocked that something like this happened in the job, isn't necessarily a flaw.

Like maybe it's a realistic thing.

It is.

I do think people are shocked by things.

You gave the Insider Trading an example for you, but I think you'd be surprised when people are shocked.

Actually, when it comes to something like sexual assault, because people believe, like I said, people believe that it only happens by a particular part of a person.

So I think you'd be surprised that, it's the same thing as relationships, it's the same thing, I don't know, in life, when someone is like, no, that's my friend, there's no way he could ever do that.

Why?

Why could he never do that?

What do you know about, like, so, yeah, I mean.

Change that, change that.

Yeah, yeah, what's your?

No, don't, stick to your, no, stick to your, stick to your score, stick to your score.

I think the movie was a good movie.

I think that point really struck me.

I think also I didn't like how on the nose it was, but again, that is not, I'm not saying the movie is a bad movie, or it is just, in the way the story was told, I did not like certain things.

And that is why, again, I think a seven and a half is what I said.

I think seven and a half is like, it's still a really good score for a film.

Seven and a half is a good film.

Yeah, like I didn't say this is a four.

I mean, 7 is a C, come on now.

Like, it's not even a B.

What did I give, 8 or eight and a half?

I gave 8, right?

Fine with 8.

Fine with 8.

You put a 4.

8 is 4 stars.

Yeah, 4 stars, by the way.

Yeah, so yeah, I'm like on having this conversation, on having multiple conversations, I'm just like, I think I've rehashed some of my grievances with the film.

I'm just like, yeah, like, it's still a really good movie.

I would not re-watch it.

Maybe I'm also biased by the decisions made in regards to how on the nose some of the lessons in the film feel like they have had to be.

So it reduces the experience for me.

I want to do a little bit of work.

I don't want you slapping it up for me.

I'm gonna re-watch it though.

Yeah, I'm gonna re-watch it.

I need to re-watch it actually.

But that doesn't like, okay, I hate to be this person to say this.

Because of the conversation you've had with people or because of...

No, no, no, the decision that was made to make the movie more, like to make the message more overt, like the length she went to, it did also make the experience for me a bit less.

I mean, yeah, I...

Yeah, I do agree with that point.

Because even during the film, I'm like, bro, if they say this whole "math" thing one more time, I'm gonna blow my head off.

Bro, like, come on.

The title of the film is The MATERIALISTS.

Again, right, after the film has sat with you, you realize why.

Because even with how many times she said it, so many people still did not get it, so.

That's true.

Also, can I just say, I think the best execution of the whole math thing is when Chris Evans talk about his roommate being engaged to a TikToker that has OnlyFans.

And she's like, that's the best he could ever do.

Like, I was like, that's like fair enough.

She put out his stat sheet and was like, look, this guy is about to get retired.

He better cash out now.

This is his final contract.

That was funny.

That was hilarious.

I want us to have this reading conversation again the next six months for yourself.

Because I think it's only fair.

I think Ofili might drop lower if he comes back in six months.

I can't be the only one that gives it a nine out of this group.

And you guys are all guys too.

That's why we value the first lady of The Cinephiles Aisle.

That's why we value your first lady.

Yeah, but if three men are giving less than 8.5.

The problem is with us.

We are just problem.

When they say that we don't want to call it a rom-com, because we don't like to say that we like rom-coms apparently.

Maybe you guys don't like Celine Dion as you say you do.

I'm fighting for Celine Song on every street, also Celine Dion.

I'm fighting for Celine Song on every street.

I have two or three things that really bug me about the film.

I don't know if we've discussed them and I understand them a bit more.

I don't think I could say those things and still give it more than I need.

That's fine.

I like, there are some points when I'm not going to tell you.

I didn't want to happen.

I don't like coming with negative vibes.

But there are some points where Dakota Johnson really took me out.

And I was like, babe, what's going on?

I'm so sorry.

That woman has been dull for past few years.

You just have to cope this with her dullness.

Yeah, there's some line readings.

I was like, this feels tough.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And obviously, like I said, I would obviously have liked it if the Pedro Pascal relationship had a bit more to it.

Yeah.

It's so crazy.

All these little things go from, like it was never going to be more than in nine.

Yeah.

Unless we're talking about PAST LIVES, right?

So it's like 8 to 9.

It's fine.

That's right.

That's right.

Yeah.

It's so crazy because I know someone that loves Dakota and prefers this movie to PAST LIVES, and she felt like Greta Lee was worse than Dakota, like Dakota was better.

And you know yourself, so you're going to hear this when you send to the podcast, your opinion.

Objectively wrong.

Anyway-

Well, she thought Greta Lee was worse in PAST LIVES than Dakota was here.

She felt like Dakota did a better job in this than in-

God bless her.

And she felt like MATERIALISTS was a better film than PAST LIVES.

Tell her God bless her.

Oh, at least she's consistent.

Exactly.

All opinions are valid, you know.

That's why we had this podcast here.

All opinions are valid, but they're not true.

So, you know.

Um, this is-

this has-

it's okay.

This has been, by far, our longest episode.

This has been fun.

Oh, I apologize.

We have Popcorn for Dinner on.

I'm so sorry.

No, no.

It's cool.

This has been a really, really fun episode.

Um, if you haven't seen MATERIALISTS, crazy time to give a Spoiler Warning, but-

They're incredible.

Like, what are you still doing here?

Please, please go see that great film.

Um, yeah.

Thank you so much to Banky from Popcorn for Dinner.

Um, that would be-

Well, thank you for having me.

Yeah.

Popcorn for Dinner, Instagram, Twitter, Spotify, wherever podcasts find you.

Please go check them out.

YouTube, yeah.

Yeah.

YouTube as well.

Really great stuff.

Like we said, inspiration on the mood board for TCA.

And we're so excited that we could make this happen.

Thank you, Misgana.

Thank you for having me.

Of course.

But anyway, yeah, thank you all so much.

Until next time, this has been the TCA.

Right.