The Cinephile's Aisle
Two film haters and a microphone covering cinema classics, box office blockbusters, and everything in between!
The Cinephile's Aisle
Episode 28: "One Battle After Another" feat. Ayisha
SPOILER ALERT: Episode contains key plot details from One Battle After Another.
We dive deep into Paul Thomas Anderson’s most politically urgent film to date. We open with acknowledging our unplanned hiatus and thoughts on the TCA rebrand (2:30), before getting into our initial reactions to the film (8:15), the power of VistaVision and PTA’s visual storytelling (18:40), and DiCaprio’s layered performance as Bob Ferguson (26:05). We unpack Teyana Taylor’s character, sexuality as resistance, and revolutionary fatigue (34:10), before debating the real meaning of legacy and betrayal (46:30). We close with thoughts on PTA’s evolution as a director (58:15).
TCA Verdict: 10s across the board. Our first unanimous 10.
Find us on Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube at @CinephilesAisle.
Alright, guys, welcome to another episode of the Cinephile's Aisle. I'm Ofili, and today we're diving deep into the movie everyone's talking about. PTA's, One Battle After Another. I'm joined with Steve, as usual. And Ayisha came back for this one.
Ayisha:Welcome. I'm happy to be back. I'm not used to uh being a guest, so I just was about to say welcome to the podcast. I was about to say I was like, it's not my podcast.
Ofili:So yeah. Something really interesting about the podcast. We are going through a bit of a rebrand. Hope you guys enjoy the new logo. Would love some feedback. Alright.
Ayisha:Now to exciting.
Steve:It's been like two and a half years, so I feel like it's this is the part where if you're living in an apartment, you start to refurnish certain things, right? Absolutely. We're doing some going through an emotional breakdown.
Ayisha:Or if you're having relationship problems, you've you start to refurnish your apartment. Usually a sign of the end is the moving things around in the apartment. I don't think so. I think it's for housekeeping. Healthy housekeeping. I don't know. I don't know. People beware, like if I've been moving things around, it's because it's a sign. A sign. When I watch Grey's Anatomy for the 17th time, it's like a red alert that I'm going through a depressive cycle. And this is a red alert for if I'm about to break up with a new boyfriend, is if I'm moving around my furniture. You know what I mean?
Ofili:This is hilarious. Yeah. So, how exactly do you then initiate your ends? Do you like put them on a performance plan? What do you do? You give them OKRs. If you don't get these, you're out.
Ayisha:I would say the end is coming before the end comes. Yeah. That makes sense. But this is actually really, really funny because I don't have a friend why I can say this. But I think some people are cold. Like I know someone that was get told two weeks before they got divorced. I wouldn't say I'm that cold, but uh the moving around furniture is the first sign, you know. You gotta check your balances.
Ofili:I feel like if you're in a better space, you want your environment to kind of like reflect.
Ayisha:Yes, furnishing, furnishing is a sign of seriousness. Furniture. Refurnishing, moving around furniture that you already have, current furniture, is not a good sign, is what I'm saying.
Ofili:Fair enough, fair enough. I guess, like in the sense, then that means we are out with the old logo, in with the new one.
Ayisha:Exactly. Recommitting to your life as podcasters forever.
Ofili:I genuinely thought she was trying to hint that oh, TCA is about to break up. But now it's a dig that we're not consistent enough. We know we took a little bit of a hiatus.
Ayisha:I don't even care about the consistency, it's more about the fact that I'm laughing at two men doing a podcast forever, chopping it up on the pod. You know what I mean? That's the dream, no?
Ofili:That is my dream. I will pass down the TCA to my children in the will.
Ayisha:That's amazing.
Ofili:We take that.
Ayisha:Okay, sarcasm aside, though, imagine a life where there's generational podcasters and like you pass it down to your kids, your kids are like doing the same thing as you. Like, I just think that that's that's fantastic. How interesting would that be? Someone like Bill Simmons from The Ringer probably is passing that shit down to his nippo babies, that's for sure.
Ofili:And I think in in addition to that, for the you know, I've had I've I've had this Pumps and what's her name. The the two white women that talk about things that they've been hating on, and they recently moved very heavily into the political space. Um they have their kids working as producers or just like involved.
Ayisha:So yeah, that's much more common, but the kids being hosts as a retirement plan is less common, I think.
Ofili:I think on a greater conversation about talent, I do think it does skip a generation. Whoa, cheese house.
Ayisha:Wow, that was that was hard. That was hard. You don't think you don't think so?
Ofili:No, I feel like yeah, I think it's very rare that you have a like even like football, like soccer, you know, when you're watching players who have kids, very few times are you like, yeah, you're exactly like your pops.
Ayisha:I'm quite familiar with this actually in the sense of sports, but like it's I think it's quite hard. The pressure, I feel like if you're if your father and mother was a a star, you to also be a star. I think the pressure is what gets them.
Ofili:I think there's very few people, and it's really insane when I say this. I don't think you can have one child. Only way for you to replicate that level of proficiency is by having multiple kids, messing up the first one. How did we how did we get to eugenics? Like when did it get together?
Ayisha:Okay, look, I have a really good story for you based on this. Oh my god. So I went on this date once with this man, and uh this was crazy. I this is actually this is a great story for you. And uh at some point he tells me that and actually Priscilla has heard this, it's actually a real life thing that happened to me. This is probably the craziest thing's ever happened in my life. He tells me that you know he's really just trying to diversify his gene pool. So, first of all, he wants mixed-race babies because mixed-race babies have superior genes.
Ofili:Okay, so this is your white man. This is this is your white man, right?
Ayisha:No, no, no, no, no. He wasn't white, he was like Asian adjacent, basically. Okay, okay, fair enough. But like he was something else. Um, which we have a lot of in the UK because you know they also colonized them as well. Whatever. That is true. Uh so he wants to have best marriaging point. He was like, he wants to have six kids by 60 to kind of give him the best chance um of achieving the results that he needs. So actually, really funny you're saying this because I've experienced someone else say this to me very pretty seriously to my face. Interesting.
Ofili:Um I think I see when I was 12, I used to have a joke that I want to have like I know. I had a joke, I was I had a little bit where I I was like, I want to have like 15 to 20 kids so that we can hope that 11 are good athletes.
Ayisha:Steve's face just now, like Steve, zone the fuck out. They're like a football team, yeah.
Ofili:They're a football team, they chase either side against each other.
Ayisha:I know this joke. This is a joke.
Ofili:That was my thing for a little bit. Then I started thinking about the feasibility of feeding 11 people. I mean, you have to be a very rich and taking them to school, all of that, being present, like it's it's crazy. It's crazy.
Ayisha:They're probably the most expensive thing that you will ever have to do.
Ofili:Oh, absolutely, absolutely. To uh do in your back to podcast talent skipping generations. I even actors, man. I feel like very few of them Cooper Hoffman. That's different, that's one in a million. Think about all the not Cooper Hoffman's butt it doesn't have to be actors, there's directors.
Steve:I think Sharmelan's daughter has promise. I think don't do that. I think the proposal did you watch the watchers? I didn't, but she I didn't know. Okay, then what how do you say that?
Ayisha:I did, and I think it was not a bad film for a first film.
Steve:The couple the Francis Ford and and Sophia.
Ayisha:Yeah, okay.
Steve:Let's talk about that. Let's talk about that.
Ayisha:Why what's she actually with Sophia Coppola, man?
Steve:What's your good she is very good?
Ayisha:I was having this conversation about what a film brewer is and what a film sis, whatever they call them, are like the female version of a film brewer. And apparently the female version of a film brewer watches Sophia Coppola films and thinks that they're not gonna be able to do it. Do you agree?
Ofili:I would agree that the female version of a film cis likes Sophia Coppola. I think they also like Emerald Fennel and don't get why people hate Emerald Fennel.
Ayisha:Emerald Fennel, listen, let's get into that. Let's get into Emerald Fennel. So I was watching One Bastard another for the second time with my sister and her husband. And basically, uh, with this thingy came up about weathering heights and all that, my sister was like a little bit of a little bit of a little bit.
Ofili:Yes, exactly. Exactly.
Ayisha:I was very wondering I hate this film, and I was like, just too weird. And like we finished the film where she was like, Oh, so it's just like a Charlie XCX video. I was like, What? Like a Charlie X video, so it's horny. It's like a horny Charlie XCX song. That's the issue. Okay. I was very frustrated with that, but whatever.
Ofili:Wait, is the trailer out? The trailer is out. It aired before one battle after another. Oh, okay. I skipped that, so I can see. Oh, you mean you just come late? And I don't show up on the trailer. I stood outside. You're the reason why AMC puts that movie stars 15 to 25 minutes after. Just so you can you can buy some time. Precisely that, yeah. Thank you.
Steve:But no, I haven't seen that.
Ayisha:AMC, I'm so jealous of your AMC uh in your country. So interesting. Nice that you guys have that. The A-list I've heard of.
Ofili:I'm so sorry, but I I don't know why that's I don't know that meme that in America they kill you.
Steve:Everybody says you're probably like that. No, I don't know.
Ayisha:If you don't have what?
Ofili:A-list? It's like uh no, it's like a it's a bit of banter where they have like this um it's this girl, this Chinese woman, or sorry, sorry, this Asian officer is North Korean, she's North Korean, and she like escapes.
Ayisha:Oh, don't get in trouble, Steve. I'm so sorry. No, don't do that.
Ofili:Yeah, but yeah, she she escaped uh North Korea and she was like she came on like podcasts. Jurgan. Yeah, it was Jurgen, and she started to say like the craziest things. No, whenever someone wants to say something crazy about a different country or just about same country, and like the way you were just talking about, oh, I'm so jealous in America you have AFC.
Ayisha:No, because I the A-list sounds like a fun time. Like, I don't know. No, it is a fun time, but like I guess we don't have that shit in the UK, just take our money from us all the time.
Ofili:Crazy man. Yeah, I had to explain to my sorry at my job, I've become the movie guy. Unfortunately, yeah, unfortunately, I'm the movie guy. You're the movie guy, yeah.
Ayisha:Unfortunately, I was the movie girl at my job.
Ofili:Yeah, it's a huge weight, it's a law of responsibility. One of the ways they actually backfired was when I recommended one by the life or another, but I did not at the same time because I had to pull it back because I was like, I don't know how you view racism. Oh, well, you'll be that's true. Do you get me? Like in the workplace.
Ayisha:It was, I mean, I don't want to to talk too much about the film, but I I didn't really watch many trailers before I watched it. It was definitely way more about race than I thought it would be.
Ofili:It was one of the best trailers I have ever seen because I walked into that movie, seeing scenes, did not know that this was going to be about racing when immigrated at all.
Ayisha:I was shook. Like, I was like, wow, you really kind of buried the lead with that because I know I think he maybe he, I don't know, Warner obviously was very confused about how to market this film. I think that was obvious to everyone, in a way that they found it easy to market sinners because of who Ryan Kugler is and who he means to African Americans and black people in general across the world. There was an opportunity in this one to market it as a race film, but I think they were just too scared of like what that would mean in the context of this film. So they just made it incredibly, incredibly vague and marketed it as like a fortnight shootout situation, but it wasn't any of that. I can see why they were nervous now after watching it, but um, absolutely.
Ofili:The context is insane and the amount of jokes flying off are crazy. I was gonna ask if we're gonna make this a spoiler-free episode.
Steve:I think it's so hard to talk about like so many things are so uniquely one battle that we can't talk about them without giving spoilers.
Ayisha:And I also think the people that come to podcasts to hear spoiler-free, I've I vocally said how I despised that on my own podcast, too. I'm sorry, guys. Why? You need to go to Pickers.
Steve:Sometimes it's necessary. So we did an episode for the film with Garfield and Flant Pew, and the film was coming out in the UK. We're live in time, and the film was coming out in the UK like months after the fact, and so it made sense. That makes sense.
Ayisha:Yeah, it made sense that okay, we talk about this 33 worldwide at the same time, so it's not very sure. Yeah, it's not the same thing, but I know I I know what you mean. I I I need I understand that. Also, I can see your logo in the corner. Very nice, guys. Very nice. That's not the logo.
Ofili:That that's the old one. That's okay. So you just don't pay attention, you don't listen to our part. That's how we caught you. You don't listen to our part. The old logo. That's that's two and a half years. Crazy.
Ayisha:No, I do listen to part. You said you had a new one recently.
Ofili:When we push this episode, the new one will be live.
Ayisha:Okay, okay. Sorry, sorry, people.
Ofili:It's so good, man.
Ayisha:Okay, I'm just trying to live life to get experiences so I can come on your podcast and give some hot shit. You know what I mean? It's hard out here.
Ofili:All right, kicking into the episode. Before we get into any kind of deep analysis, let's start with one word. How would you describe immediate reaction to walking out the theater?
Ayisha:Media or immediate.
Ofili:Immediate. Immediate reaction.
Ayisha:Immediate. I want to hear what Steve thinks.
Ofili:Why me, bro?
Ayisha:Why me? I don't know. I don't know, Steve.
Steve:Like, why you? Wow. Okay, well, the first person I texted after was Ophilly. And my immediate or my initial reaction. Philly is really the golden boy. Me is wow, see.
Ofili:I just check in with my people. Don't worry about that. I check in.
Steve:Anyway, sorry, Steve. Wait, did you say me as well? Like you also texted Ophilly as soon as you walked out? Yes, yes.
Ayisha:Not as soon as I walk out because I'm not a liar, and I said I don't like to speak as soon as I it was like a few hours after I posted me.
Steve:Yeah, I think because I wasn't very excited like I wasn't the most excited person in the world for it, and I shared that with Offilly. I wasn't looking, I got my ticket for last year.
Ayisha:You know, we know you were a hater.
Steve:It's funny. Yeah, I was very much so. I wasn't expecting to be wild or to be blown away or anything, but what sitting through that, I was very impressed to how okay. I know you said immediate reaction, and I was very impressed at how one word, Jesus Wordle. I said word one word. I know how fast I was impressed at how fast it went by that. I told her Philly, oh, that's one of those films I'm going to own. Like I'm going to buy and purchase and own. So I can watch it, you know, whenever. And I think that was my immediate reaction. It's like, that's good, that's very good. I recognize how good it is, but I want to have this film have the ability to study, to re revisit the film, and just make sure this, like the option to see never goes away from me.
Ofili:You know what I mean? That's actually insane to me that you couldn't get one word. I didn't get one word because I just didn't do one word. That's so insane to me.
Steve:It's a two-hour 45 film. Like, how am I going to condense that into one word?
Ofili:I'm not that pacing. Pacing. You could have just said pacing. Because I think one of the things that I said to you right before you walked into the theater was you're like, oh, this is going to be so long. And I was like, you won't feel it. Oh, I doubt you feel it. And I did it. That's so interesting.
Ayisha:What are you guys' opinions on um films that are over two hours? I don't know. I I'm one of those people that I don't see like only if I have something to do, I might like, oh, this is too long, I can't do it. But I don't have issues with long films.
Steve:I think we've talked about it a little bit on the pod, but it depends on the film, right? There's certain films that okay, this like I, for example, have maintained that Dune Part 2 could have been longer. There's films that you sit in there and you're like, okay, the time isn't really passing by, you know. And there's films that are two hours, even less than under two hours, where I might check my watch a couple of times. I'm like, oh, okay, how long is this? Like, how long has it gone by? How long do we have left? So it depends on the film and like what it is that you're telling me. You know what I mean? So I don't have a one answer to, oh, if it's over two hours, I'm not gonna see it. But for Sunny films, I'm not gonna say if it's over two hours just because of the story and what how the filmmaker tells their stories. And the Sunny films, it doesn't matter how long they are, I'm going to say it. So yeah.
Ayisha:Yeah. Okay, okay. So just like it depends on on the content. So your word is pacing.
Ofili:No, my word is no. I think Steve's word should be fucking pacing. Niggas is putting words into my mouth. I think Steve's word should be pacing. My word is Oscar. That's that's my fucking word, Oscar.
Steve:Oscar.
Ofili:Oscar.
Steve:That was funny as hell. Oscar.
Ayisha:Oscar? Oscar. Yeah, Oscar.
Ofili:I was. Well before before we move on to Aisha's word, I'm going to explain my thing regarding your question. Personally, I feel like very similar to Steve, but I'm a little bit stricter. It does depend on the content, like the kind of book, or sorry, whatever the source content is. If it's a book and the average book is about 300 words, I think that should be specifically if it's just one book. I think that could be under two hours. 300 pages. Yeah, it's about 300 pages for the average book.
Steve:You said words, and I'm like, okay.
Ofili:No, no, not words. That's like 80k words or something like that. But I think you should work towards those standalone books being under two hours. If you're adding in a little bit of cannon, maybe 220. If the story can be told in under two hours, genuinely, without you compromising a lot, I think always go for that option. I personally love a 90-minute banger. You know, I sit down tight 90. We run a tight ship here, like 90-minute banger. Yeah, exactly. I love a good sort of work. But I also think when it's a we need to be able to decide when a certain show or a certain movie or the content again that we're writing should be a limited series. And not just like a movie that is running closer to three hours, and at the end of it, you feel so exhausted by it. Because there's so many slow-moving parts. No, the problem is I think many people share this feeling, specifically when it's also content that a lot of people like, like the book or whatever the source material. Yeah. I keep saying book because I know that one bastard after another was based off of like Vinyland, so Penchant's Violence. But I've been thinking about it specifically because The Summer I Turned Pretty came out. I'm not gonna spoil it, but no, but like I I'm I know I'm really annoyed by the announcement of the movie.
Ayisha:I mean, Ms.
Ofili:Garden, I for the life of me, I don't understand how there is two seasons of that content and the movie being announced, three seasons and the movie being announced. The story has been told. What are we doing? It's prime trying to capitalize on the end days.
Ayisha:So many thoughts on this that I could like burst. Like I have so many thoughts. My my thing is this it's clear now that they've now they've announced the movie that they've made the finale kind of less resolved because of that. Really, Prime is just trying to make money. Prime is just trying to make money and they're taking after the person that they pay a lot of money for that show for licensing, i.e., Miss Taylor Swift. They're taking a they're taking head taking heat from her because she will do something equally like this. And listen, I respect a woman making money, uh you know, as you know, but at the same time, this is I think incredibly indulgent. They're going to try and do it in theaters, I'm 110% sure, to make some money as well. So it's just a capitalist, uh, some capitalist bullshit. But I agree with you in terms of it being too indulgent, and if it can be a limited series for it to be that instead.
Steve:And I think I'll add a I'll add on to the limited, like using making it a limited series. If you also have the option to make a film a two-part film, I'm not always opposed to that. Like I feel like I prefer that sometimes as opposed to condensing. I hate the two-party. And that's like wicked part before.
Ayisha:Wicked right now, absolutely, you could have kept that one part. Sorry.
Steve:And that's and that's fine, right? The Hunger Games film came out what last year or two years ago. I feel like it could have been a two-part film.
Ofili:No, it's it's one part, but you you wanted it to be a two-part film.
Steve:I wanted it to be a two-part film.
Ofili:Yeah, you wanted a whole like you want you were telling me what your thoughts were for the imaginative next section of the film that they could have showed. And I was like, it's just not part of the story, Steve.
Steve:So it just feels so it felt so condensed in there, and like the time jumps and stuff like that. And I didn't feel because I ended up not feeling what I'm supposed to feel when conflict happens or when tragedy happens. It's like, well, you haven't given me time to love these people enough. How am I supposed to be sad now? But yeah, yeah, I mean it depends. And some films are two-part films. There, it's like maybe you could probably could have done this in one sitting. So I feel like it depends again.
Ofili:But yeah. Fair enough. Yeah. Okay. So are you sure what's your one word to describe one battle after another?
Ayisha:Um okay, so just to specify what this question is. So is it how I felt when I walked out? Or is it how I felt into like you know, as a summary?
Ofili:Emotions as soon as you walked out, if you could use one word to describe it.
Ayisha:Disturbed. Disturbed. Yeah, disturbed. Okay, so like I mean, so this film for me, very emotional time in my life watching my favorite director of all time uh have his moments before I went to right before I went to watch the film, there was all this like hoopla online about how it's a masterpiece. It's the best thing ever. So already I was like super kind of I I think it made me less interested in actually seeing the film. It kind of made me kind of more apprehensive because I think that the the journey was insane for me because I was I was anticipating him coming out with this film and like super surprised it was coming out so early, like because I thought it would come out in like two years, but it's coming out this year. And then I was worried about it because they weren't releasing a trailer. They heard I was hearing the rumors that he had to recut his trailer, and they were fighting with Warners about that. I was hearing rumors that he wasn't going to go to any of the four festivals, and everyone suspected it was because it was about the movie was gonna bomb and stuff like that. So I was very worried about how it would be received. I knew I'd enjoy it, but I was worried about that. Then it came out, so everyone was like, it's amazing. I was like, Oh wow, this is crazy, unexpected, but not just it's amazing, it's the best movie ever. It's this, it's this, and I was like, Okay, wow, that's a lot. Then I went in to watch it in the IMAX, right? So IMAX on 17mm, which is so amazing, amazing, yeah, but also very, very intense. Very intense. I was quite close to the screen, so it's actually really intense for me. Um, so that's why I felt disturbed, I think. And also, I didn't expect the content of that film to be the content of that film. Uh I I feel like PTA has this way of endearing you to his characters, but um in my opinion, this is the sort of crowning achievement he has in kind of having empathy for his characters. I find that PTA is always kind of questioning, just like Chris Malone kind of questions. I heard someone also say something similar, like the notion of masculinity and being a man is in all of his films, right? But that thing's also, you know, and woman maybe in a way, but often I find that there is this sort of distance from the protagonist in all of his films. Like even in Punch Drunk Love, it's like you want to feel bad for Adam Sandler's character, and you still do, but you don't, you don't, you're not fully there. And I think that distance is him kind of going, yeah, they you know they're kind of good parts to him, but fundamentally he's very flawed, right? So don't see him as this sort of um wholly sympathetic uh angelic person necessarily. Um usually the directors are trying to just endear you fully to the character, so even when they do bad things, you're still in support of them. But I feel as though in this film was kind of the first time I would say I watched a PTA film. I mean, obviously there are more stakes in this film, but a PTA film and I really, really felt like after like five minutes, I was already watching movies like yeah, about five minutes, I was already kind of deeply, deeply anxious and worried as to what will happen to these characters. I think because the line towards the ending was not exactly clear at all times. Um PTA is quite absurd, as with his stuff, he's very playful. But uh with this, I think it could have gone in so many different ways, and it could also have been way more of a depressing film than it ended up being in the end. Yeah, that is true. And um and I think I was anticipating maybe a darker turn, which is why when I first watched it, I remember just feeling just so much anxiety, like, oh god, what's gonna happen to these people? Uh and I found that I cared really easily about them and their livelihood and what was going to happen to them, which I think as I say, like it's yeah, all of his characters he does that, but with this one especially. In the second watch, I felt as though I I could like kind of relax more and like see things with clear eyes. The first one I was actually just trying to like keep it going.
Steve:So you so your word, your word being disturbed was largely based on preemptive feelings, right? Feelings that you had before the film.
Ayisha:Disturbed was based on watching the film. Even when Willa is fine, even when we have the American girl needle drop that almost made me like lose my mind, which I'll explain later. Even when we had that and we have her going off, and and it's fine, and he has his new iPhone, and you know he's gonna download Tinder or something, it's fine. I I still felt anxiety. I found myself thinking, what about Prophidia? How's Prophidia? I found myself thinking, Interesting. What about Regina Hall's character? I'm like, is she like thinking about it? I was going home thinking about everyone who wasn't doing as fine as Willow involved. Yeah, you know. So that's why I say disturbed. I mean, I don't know, films are weird for me. It's like I feel nothing half the time, and then I go to certain films and all of a sudden I feel like I felt the same way going into Lacchimara weirdly enough, where I came out of Lacky Mira and I felt deeply disturbed for at least two days or something. Like it's I don't know. Something hits sometimes, something doesn't hit other times, I guess.
Steve:Yeah.
Ofili:Can we talk about characters now or do we want to wait a bit? I think we can jump. I want to add a little bit more context to the film. Okay, so far. That's good. We are at 96% on Rotten Tomatoes and it's earned about 6.5 million for opening weekend. For the people who love to talk about finances, this is his second most successful movie in total right now.
Ayisha:It's his first highest grossing now.
Ofili:It's highest grossing right now? Perfect. And this is just opening weekend. In addition to that, it costs $125 million to make. So we're we're fucking cruising at this. So it's the biggest debut ever. And I feel like question, do you guys think this lines up with the hype, or are people just getting swept up by PTA's mystique?
Ayisha:Well, wait, so what do you mean mystique? What what mystique does he have?
Ofili:Okay, so this is kind of like a callback to like Steve's earlier, Steve's earlier content. No, I think that was your earlier wording regarding uh Warner's struggle with marketing the film because you can't lean on the director being the household name. PTA is nowhere near a household name. No, he's not even the most popular director named Anderson.
Ayisha:Do you know the amount of times I've had a conversation with someone? They're like, oh yeah, I know him. Um, did he make that film in the desert and that pink film?
Steve:Yeah, what film in the desert?
Ayisha:Um Astro City.
Ofili:Astro City, yeah.
Ayisha:Uh and the pink film, he's talking about Grand Budapest, I think.
Ofili:Grand Budapest Hotel, yeah. Which is one of my favorites. We will we'll talk about that later. But yeah. We can talk about how I don't like film later, actually. How do you guys feel about the movie? Again, comparison to like its success. Do you think it's warranted?
Steve:I think, okay. I think I someone because you were like, oh, people that are so swept up in box office numbers. I'm one of those people, if that's what you mean.
Ayisha:Do you guess that you are?
Steve:Um, I don't know what she was. I don't know. I guess, I guess, because I don't think I am, but I guess. But leading up to the film, like it wasn't in it in play at festivals or it didn't play at some of these things, the kind of hype, but all the reviews, all the preemptive, all the reviews coming from last week, like early Chandem and the social media critics and all of that, being overwhelmingly positive, right? That's that does more for marketing for the online crowd than any of these posters and traders and stuff like that. And I think we we're starting to, because the online bubble really is a bubble, but we're starting to underestimate how, because we've all recognized okay, this is not real life, you know, people don't talk about things online. They're not gonna see it online. The converse also applies, like people talk about stuff a lot online, is going to drive some portion of people to go. Word of mouth.
Ayisha:You're saying word of mouth carries.
Steve:Yeah, but I'm talking the meme people, like the Twitter memes. It wasn't word of mouth from people that had seen the film, it was word of mouth because we were making jokes about how the marketing is trash. Oh, there's one battle right behind me, isn't there? For me, when I just finished one battle and then end up, you know that stuff, it it drives intrigue. Like now it's like I have no idea what the film is about to be. And this feels funny. It doesn't say anything about what the film is about, but now I'm intrigued, which I wasn't before. And because they kept revising the projected opening numbers, they kept going up because of that. So I think the hype that we're seeing now, the numbers that we're seeing now is reflective of that hype. Not necessarily the hype that the film or its marketing did, but more so the word of mouth, the meme, the TikToks. We can't underestimate the TikTok.
Ayisha:And it being Chase Infinity head of PR. Chase Infinity. Give her double her paycheck, actually.
Steve:And also the fact that it's an ensemble. I think that also plays a fact because when you have an ensemble, you have the ability to do different presses. Like you have your press that has Chase, PTN, DiCaprio, but you also have your press that has Tiana, Regina, Chase. You know what I mean? So now you're appealing to that trading trick. Are you about to say this is not a four-quarter film? Is that what you're about to say?
Ofili:I think I feel like we're talking a little bit too much about how we feel around the movie and we've tried it before we've gone into the actual film.
Ayisha:Yeah, I think it's also very well to understand PT as a filmmaker. I mean, he's always kind of been, you know, it's not a cult filmmaker, but kind of been in this weird kind of place with his films. And I think he he doesn't really enjoy the festivals. And I do feel like he's at a point in his career where he really is just doing what he fucking wants, quite frankly. But it's clear that they want to market this film and they want this film to make money. So people please go to cinema and watch this film and watch it more than once or tell people to watch it. Because I think word of mouth will carry for this, if not awards, like Philly said Oscars. Anyway, Philly, go ahead.
Ofili:Something really fun was you actually just kind of ate off my second question. Um, this is majorly for Arisha, since you're like the PT official aficionado, really. Yeah, I wanted to make sure. Um, so a lot of people are calling this Anderson's most accessible film. Do you agree with that statement? And is that necessarily a good thing for a Paul Thomas Anderson movie?
Ayisha:What a great question. Interesting. Most accessible film. Yes, it is. It is his most accessible film, for sure. Because I mean, this is a man that started with you know his first feature film, Heart 8. Like this, this is this is also a man that is used to like he knows a loss, he knows how to make a loss in the box office, he knows how to be fucked in terms of financing and they don't want to refinance his film. Like he's had two stages of that. He had that close to Phantom Thread, he had that after Heart 8, and had to really, really fight hard to make Boogie Knights. I mean, if you watch Boogie Nights, this is not a man that wants that is trying to make a mainstream film. Boogie Nights is not a mainstream film at all. I mean, already with the contents of the film and the uh the rating, uh, it already kind of sections off Lost Audiences. I can't actually watch the film in that sense. This film is very accessible, in my opinion. Yes, it's not accessible because of how culturally poignant it is and politically alive, talking about uh, like I say, race, uh immigration. There's honestly so much when you think beneath the surface, but ultimately this film is a very, very simple plot. His daughter is taking and he needs to find her. That is really what it is. I mean, the the the the undercurrents of it, the undercurrents of it in terms of like not the plot, but essentially in terms of what actually happens in the film, you have the prologue which is explaining how the daughter is born, right? How she comes to life and who the parents are, and then he's trying to find his daughter, and his daughter is also trying to escape from some really bad guys. So if we put that down to like basic ABCs, that's what it is in terms of the actual doing of the film. You know, like we compare it to a film like Sinners, right? Sinners, in terms of plot, maybe is a bit a bit more complex, right? You have the hunting, they're trying to make them, you know, they're hosting a party. But essentially, Sinners also is quite simple. It's like they're hosting a party and vampires come and try and kill them. And that really is kind of it. Like, you know, that's really kind of what happens, and all the setup is them trying to host this party. So just as Sinners was accessible because of that, because we all know what a party is and we all want to be in that. One battle of another is very accessible because of that. Because one, everyone knows what it is to have family. It's also about the meaning of family. Everyone knows what it is to have empathy, to not know where you're going to be next, to be downtrodden by life, to have to be um sort of uh it's one battle after another. I mean, that's the existence, especially in South countries right now, Kopkov. No, absolutely. Um, but uh it's very accessible. And I think them going the Fortnite route makes sense because I can see why they were marketing it in that way. I love him because I don't think he's ever really cared to be mainstream. If he cared to be mainstream, he would definitely make different films. I mean, this man made uh Boogie Knights, okay. Even Boogie Knights, I'll say, is maybe the second most mainstream for going to be honest. You know, and then which is which is crazy because it's so not even mainstream. Then you have There will be Blood, which really is an obsessive man who really, really wants to take over all of the oil rigs in the country. Who the hell wants to watch about three hours of that, really? Like, I mean, come on. I mean, since we're like skewed said film, but it's like that's what it is. And then you have about a same obsessive man, but a seamstress, but a tailor, you know, in Phantom Thread. So it's like this man just does like he does what it's so good, he does what he wants. But this film, I think, is um it's a sentiment we all know about, and especially if you've had children, or especially if you're around children, or anything, you know, you know, you know what that feels like. So I think it's more successful, but in terms of what it means for his career. I think in a way, this is also his most one of his most personal films, in my opinion. Um so I think in terms of his career, I think it's fine because I still think there are a lot of PTA isms in this. People talk about it as his magnum opus. I don't agree. I do think it is accumulation of all the PTAs put together because you do see, you know, I always say that PTA is very visually different, right? You can look at all his films and not know it's made by the same person. But with this, I looked in and I think as a longtime PTA fan, I was like, oh, this is from this, and that's from that, and this from this, and that's from that. So it's clear that he's built up all of that knowledge, you know, after wanting to write this for 20 years and has brought that to this film. Um, I think it's good for his career because I think he's gonna win a fucking Oscar, so I hope so. I think people needed to know about his films. Now everyone is going back and uh realizing that he's the guy that did There will be blood, because apparently no one knows he's the guy that did There will be blood, which is fucking. Like they disrespect my man and he fucking made There Will Be Blood. Like I don't even understand uh how that happens, but um yeah, that's my answer. Sorry, very long-winded, but yeah, that's uh no, no, no.
Ofili:I think it's solid. So what you said about this is a man whose whose daughter got kidnapped or who has to get back his daughter. This is so interesting because my letterbox review was taken meets Big Lebowski in the best possible way.
Ayisha:Yes, no, and I agree with you. I agree with you, but this is the thing. This is this is the this is what I keep saying about PTA is like people, I mean obviously I'm very biased, but my thing is PTA does very simple films, let's be very honest. Very simple films plot-wise. He's not doing that sort of thing where there's a there's a twist and like there is a what's it called at the end, but he just executes them so well in terms of visually you can't deny it, but also in terms of like there's absurdisms, there's playfulness. But like, I mean, let's talk about fucking Magnolia. What is Magnolia? It's a day in the life of uh four different people, and it's his dad, his dad. Like, I mean, come on, that's a very simple film that could also be easily shit, you know. So I agree with you on that anyway.
Ofili:Definitely agree there, and uh to I guess nodding back to what you were saying about elements of his other films are very clear in this. For me, I I see there will be blood, I see Phantom Threat, and like the obsessive male character, and I'm like, that is Sean Penn. The difference is that is not the protagonist of this film. In a typical PTA film, we send the We get it from Sean Penn's angle.
Ayisha:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The ticks and the elements and the what's he called. I think there's also a lot of the master and inherent vice in this too.
Ofili:Oh, absolutely.
Ayisha:Um which is why I'm just like it's it really is an accumulation of everything. I don't think this man could have made this film 20 years ago in this way. And I also think another thing, also, when we go on to we can talk about the characters in a second, but these this this film is said in the modern day. I know he has talked about how he has been scared to make a film like this in the modern day. He that's why he has gone so far back into like period films. It's brave in the modern day, but also not only is it said in the modern day, it's talking about uh concepts that we are dealing with in our day-in, day out lives right now, you know, and it's not shy to do that.
Ofili:I mean, the only director doing that right now is Arias with Eddington, but um I'm not gonna say too much uh a lot of our social political school critique has been from just like this movie and Ariaster. Okay, now I'm going to switch over to Steve for our performance deep dive. Okay, so I know you love DiCaprio. Big question. So initially, a lot of people don't know this, but he was DiCaprio was initially meant to be in Boogie Nights, but he chose Titanic.
Ayisha:Yes, yes, yeah.
Ofili:So that's now we've waited 28 years for him to finally work with Anderson. How do you feel about Bob Ferguson? How do you how do you feel?
Steve:I think DiCaprio is in some ways a shape shifter, right? Because he does it across different of his roles. Like I'm watching him in some I watch him in a role and I'm like, oh wow, I haven't seen this version of him before. Like that's new. Yeah. But then this is the first time that I'm seeing him change or transform in the same role in the same film. Like from the what Aisha referred to as the prologue, you know. Like when I'm first introduced to him, I'm like, why is he acting like a cock? Like, why is he acting like a pussy, you know, for lack of a better term? And he comes to grow into himself. Yeah, because you know, she's kind of using him as her BDSM toy type shit. And then he comes to grow into that, he becomes a father. You see him.
Ofili:I don't know if he's aware though. I don't know if he's aware, but I get what you mean. You don't know if he's aware that he's being yeah, I don't I don't think he knows. Like, I don't think he knew anything with like it was all going on like that.
Ayisha:I think he was just he was just a guy that was grateful.
Steve:He was grateful for the bad thing. Yeah, that's right. But then even within the same product, he becomes a father.
Ayisha:You wouldn't be given her Bob treatment. I I would be able to do that. Like you wouldn't be like acting like Bob.
Steve:I will own that, but I wouldn't be so helpless. Like he was acting like he hasn't been there before. Like, I'm like, okay, bro. Fair enough. But in the beginning, he's acting like that, and then he becomes a dad, and you see how, like, within the same prologue, you see him become this more fatherly paternal person, and she's even complaining about how he doesn't see her anymore. And the time jumps, right? I didn't really see the time. Like, if I saw some of the characters before and after the time jump, I wouldn't be able to tell. But with him, I could tell physically he looked different. He was obviously a lot more downbeat, now depressed, and all of that, doing the drugs. But he transformed, like, that's three versions of him in the same film. Three. Different, like very differently. So I I know that he's a shapeshifter from the previous roles, but in this, like overall, I hadn't seen really seen him in this light before. And you know, within the different uh transformations as well. But I think I think I love that uh PTA did not put the film entirely on his back. I love that I love that we get to see because before when we're talking, I was telling you how I felt about Tayana Taylor. I feel like there's different aspects of the film where we wanted this entirely to rest on this person. I think the soul of the film in a lot of ways is shared between our three key women, and so I think that's great. I think the humor is also shared between him and Benicio, and I think that's great. I think the action is also shared, like a lot of the things are shared, and so it's not all resting on DiCaprio, which I love.
Ofili:Yeah, there's a there's a lot of scenes where DiCaprio is not even in it.
Ayisha:Yeah, what do you think about them saying Regional Hall was underutilized?
Steve:I I completely agree, but like I think we'll get to that one. But I completely agree fully. I think it's great having him be this person, you know, he's very decorated, he's very accomplished the most in the cast. So it's great having him blend with these different people, see them interact with him, and you know what I mean. And I'm glad that this is the one that he chose to do. This is a film that he chose to make with PTE.
Ofili:DiCaprio is the most decorated in the cast. No, it is. I think Sean Penn might be because this is the case. And DiCaprio, this is about to be Sean Penn's third Oscar. Oh shoot, yes, it is.
Ayisha:It is, it is.
Steve:No, he's hard to be is crazy though. Like DiCaprio was rubbed at the Oscars. I mean, you mean well known, well known. No, I did mean I did I did mean decorator, but I didn't know that he had I didn't know that he had won. But DiCaprio is snubbed at the Oscars, but he won in the all the years that he was meant to win the Oscars, he won the globes and the whatever critic choice of Baptist. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But just outside of the Oscars.
Ayisha:Sorry, I'm a purist.
Steve:That's great. This is this is I don't know why why are we undermining all these other awards? Well, okay, fair enough. Talk about the BAFTAs. Get out of here. The Baptist means something to some of these people, but yeah, no, that's how I feel about him. I think I think it's amazing. I think I liked his chemistry with so many people. I can't even say which interaction or which dynamic was my favorite because I really liked a lot of them. But I thought I thought at the end he does something special with Chase where he's having to level with the culmination of the three different transformations I've said is in that final scene with Chase when he's sitting across from that scene. He was correct, and he's delivering this, you know, very heartfelt, you know, what she's been chasing for 16, 17 years, and you truly feel it. I wasn't too locked in on him being the forerunner for that best dusker until that scene. When I watched that, I'm like, all right, whatever, he can have it. But yeah, no, no, I really liked him. I really liked him in it.
Ofili:Personally, I feel like DiCaprio came with a vengeance for this one, not gonna lie. I think he was upset that his only Oscar was for Revenant. And he said, um, I want to hear about supporting cars. Steve, you jumped in talking about Tiana Taylor.
Steve:When you said this about to be his next, I'm like, what you what do you mean by that? Why are you so sure it's like why are you? You're talking about Sean Patrick. Why do we necessarily have Sean over Benicio? Why? I want to know.
Ofili:Because okay. I'm not saying I'm not saying parallel this to another movie that I immediately was thinking about when I saw this was I was thinking about Inglorious Bastards. Yeah, okay, yeah. I was thinking about Hans Lander, and I was like, this is a new age Hans Lander, and he gets more screen time, he has way more memorable lines, and just the transformation of Sean Penn, they are also biased to us, Sean Penn, for good reason. Like this transformation is insane. Lockjaw is not like any other Sean Penn character that we've seen. No, and so I feel like quite honestly, like it's in the bag for him. Benicious is great.
Ayisha:Fuck the hell, man. I'm sorry. Yeah, that in the 80s. And actually, sorry, sorry, some little fun fact. Another needle drop by American Girl, also in Fast Times Ridgemont High. At the beginning of Fast Times Richmond High, American Girl is also used as needle drop.
Ofili:Anyway, whatever, keep going. No, that's how I feel about Sean Penn. I feel like it's in the bag for him. Like when we Jesus fucking Christ, like, what are we gonna talk about? Like Angry Birds, like like the guy that did Angry Birds is during getting a third Oscar. It's crazy.
Ayisha:See, make your case for Benitio then. Make your case for Benisho.
Steve:I'm not saying Benisho should be. I'm just like, why? Because Philly had said this is about to be his next, so that I was just asking, why is he so sure that this is I'm not saying that's the same.
Ofili:I don't think Beniscio also has a I don't think Benisio has enough screen time for that that is the defining one. And I and I think to the story, Beniscio is crucial to the message of it is one battle after another, and you have to stay prepared, you have to be sympathetic, you have to be kind, you have to be able to do that. That's so interesting, you know. Yeah, that is great, but I think that is like a side, I think it's like an aside to the main story.
Ayisha:Yeah, the main story No, it's true because it's true, you're right, because I mean, I mean, not to we're gonna go deep into the plot that, but Manisho taking a selfie with him and being in awe of him being a Friend 75 member, it's clear that there are battles going on all around and they are all on this spectrum in terms of how comfortable they are with that and that being their existence and their lives. But is an outside character, he's kind of there to service the plot advancement.
Ofili:I don't even think he services the plot. I think what I think, quite honestly, is that without Benicio's character, without that whole Sanctuary City aspect, we can still get DiCaprio to that road.
Ayisha:Yes, you can. And I think he doesn't leave the hospital.
Steve:You can't, but he never falls off the roof as well. True.
Ayisha:I think it's interesting that you mentioned Benicio's uh you know, one battle after another in terms of his because I find it quite interesting. His part of the plot really touched me because I I I just I love the idea of this. Like I love protagonists like that that are just like cool, like calm, but like really around the city. Like he's a fucking kingpin of that fucking Bracton Cross. He's the kingpin of Bracton Cross. Like, literally, how does he have ties everywhere? Like when that woman whispered to him, You're gonna go through the door and you're gonna go through the through the roof. I felt chills in my spine, I'm euphoric. Like it was like I was watching fucking casino or some shit. Like, but um, yeah, I think they're all on the spectrum of one battle after another, right? Leo, obviously, from the beginning, like Steve, you said, right, when you meet him, you know, you mention, you know, Cook, whatever you want to call it, he essentially doesn't really know what he's doing. Even when he's been given the briefing, okay, you're gonna go to action course, you're gonna wait there, you're gonna he's given the briefing by uh whatever his name is.
Ofili:Uh prior to that, he is not even involved in the initial planning for the for the raid.
Ayisha:No, yeah. So they show you, yeah, you're right. They show you in the first five seconds, this guy does not know what he's doing. Essentially, this is a man that latched on to a revolution because he likes black women, which fair enough blessed.
Ofili:Which is uh interesting, is like that interesting, that is like a central plot to this film.
Ayisha:No, it is because he says it what Tiana is, what Tiana is. Is she tongue-kissing him in the no? I know what I'm saying is he basically interracial relationships.
Ofili:Like the central theme of this film.
Ayisha:It is and we'll get to that though, because I'm like, I have thoughts on that too. But um you have crazy. Yes, I have thoughts on Sean. I have thoughts on that too. Essentially, he is uncomfortable with having to fight this battle when he's in the middle, even Willow, he's in the middle, where he's like, Oh, I want her to be confident and speak her mind, but also she's kind of being like an asshole to me. So maybe I should sell her off. That's why he's crying in her school because he has that he's she's an example of student learning about slave traders. How can my daughter be an example of student learning about slave traders? That makes me sad, you know. Benicious on the other end where he's so comfortable fighting the battles that he doesn't even show it on his face. And you have Sean Penn on the other end, who is the antagonist. So he is white knuckle holding onto it so tightly. You have all of them on various spectrums, but uh I think that is the joy of Benicio's character, even though I don't feel as though he brought the most uh defiant acting performance that there was.
Ofili:Okay, so now another thing I want to speak on in regards to other major plot points. How do you guys feel about Lockjaw being Willow's biological father?
Steve:Expected.
Ofili:Expected? How did you feel Steve?
Steve:Yeah, I wasn't I need I wouldn't say expected. I think pretty good.
Ofili:Sure.
Steve:Fair enough. I think kudos to PTA because he had me on the edge for that one. Because he's like, if the line is straight, we're going to have some real problems. If it isn't, you're free to go. So in my head, I'm like, well, I don't think Chase is gonna die. So I hope for her sake, like, you know, that line is not going to be straight. It's yeah, I'm playing in my head and I'm like, I don't know where you're taking me, right? And I was also thinking that Bob knew that Lutcher was doing whatever with her at the time. I feel like there would have been seeds of doubt in his head at the time, right?
Ayisha:I don't think he knew.
Steve:You don't think he knew that it was fraternizing?
Ayisha:No, I don't think he knew. I don't think she ever told him. I don't think he knew. Well, how would he have known? She goes at night and then she couldn't have known. He just knows that he's known as he antagonizes her. All he knows when is when he comes up and he goes, That's a black go name. And then I think in that moment he doesn't even know that that's locked on.
Ofili:That's what he says, yeah. Interesting. I think he does he doesn't know. I think like oh, you might be right.
Steve:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ofili:Yeah, so it's not him being like a cuck, it's more like him being like paranoid hermit type vibe to like full-blown action hero. Yes. When like the grandmother or the mother, like Tiana's mom, says, like, you don't even know what you're doing here. For myself, for my daughter, yeah. Like she comes from a long line of revolutionaries. He grows from that to being maybe not even a revolutionary, because at the end of the day, he doesn't remember the passion passwords, and that's like a big thing. Like he knows the scripture, but it's not really by heart. You get me, he makes fun of it.
Ayisha:Or does he just accept who he is finally? No, I think he grows a little bit.
Ofili:He grows, I think he grows to being like an action hero for his daughter.
Ayisha:Yeah, yes, but that's what I'm saying. It's like it's like that's the whole point, is that okay, you might not be fighting the fight the way other people are fighting in terms of like active fighting, yeah, fighting it through love, right? And that's I and I think I think part of that is what PTA is trying to say.
Steve:I think part of what PTA is saying is like there's different ways to do revolution. There's different yes, there's different ways to be part of whatever French 75.
Ayisha:So he doesn't grow to be the and there are also ways that are that are anti uh that are not uh what do they call it? Um anti-thetical yes, yeah.
Steve:To revolution. Who is he are you saying that he's doing that? So who who was who was who would be the anti-thesis of the revolution then that you're saying?
Ayisha:I don't know. I say like maybe I won't go that far, but I would just maybe say perfidia, you know, there I think that is a deep thing to think about that is kind of brushed under the rug, but I think it's very complex.
Steve:I think the only thing that perfidia does do that I personally felt like was not in line with her character, I guess, was killing that guy. I think that was the only which to be fair, that's what kick starts a lot of you know the subsequent, but everything else she does felt in line with the character that PT had introduced. The character that introduced was strongly pro-revolution, she was the embodiment of French 75, as I said by her mother, friends, and all of that.
Ayisha:And so is she, but but is she but is she helped the progress of the revolution? Not really.
Steve:I think no no no I do think she is selfish, but we're introducing her as a selfish person. She is selfish.
Ofili:I do think Steve is I do I do want to take Steve's side on this. I do think she does make progress in regards to like pushing forward the revolutionary dream. However, a really big theme about this film, you know, sorry, I don't know why I said it that way, but this film is like legacy. Yes, and I think that is like that's that's where we are. That's where we leave, like we can't erase the legacy that she left behind after being a snitch, should not erase the progress that she made when she was a key member of the French 75 or Daniel leading the French 75. Yeah, but again, I hear what you're saying about I get why you're saying what you're saying. Yeah, yeah. That was a crazy line. That was something else. I feel like this movie just had so many bangers.
Ayisha:Legacy, legacy is really important because I mean, when we talk about the Christmas adventurers, right?
Ofili:That is true.
Ayisha:The idea of half-greeding, the idea of of soiling yourself, of staining yourself, you're staining your legacy. It's impurity, like it's impurity, you know. It's going back to a lot of like, you know, um Nazi sort of Aryan mindsets that you had at that time, bringing that sort of back. But um, you're right about legacy as well, in that like there's the reverse with the Christmas mental as well. I mean, Seaman Demon, she wanted a piece of me and my uh my spirit.
Steve:Can I ask you guys the clearly more well-versed in the PTA dictionary? Is this a recurring theme in his films? Like anti-fascist text or anti-Nazi? So, okay, because I did not know that, so very surprised, obviously, but very, very, very impressed by that. It's nothing dealt with it. How he dealt with it. It's nothing he doesn't, he's never, he doesn't even pick up the hammer, he's not trying to hit the hammer on it.
Ofili:Nope, but it's not like it's very nose-less it's not. No, yes, yeah.
Ayisha:But it's so there's no moral judgment. There's no moral judgment, but it also isn't like Eddington, where it's kind of like playing both sides in a confusing way. Yeah, absolutely. There is there is a side here, yes, but it's not it's not uh sort of kind of it's kind of passing judgment, it's more so like it's more like satirical, like passing humor. Absolutely.
Ofili:Okay, I'm enjoying it, it's satirical. That's why I was anxious about recommending it at work.
Steve:Yeah, because I was like, sorry, after Tiana, that was my favorite part of the film, like that whole that thing that he did with just the anti because like you hear them talk that scene when they're sitting in that bunker and you're talking with like the lovely bunker, by the way.
Ayisha:Sorry, very those amazing, those amazing uh flower pattern doors, you know, that sort of poetry. I love that.
Steve:Yeah, super, super amazing scene. And in the scene, like you're watching them, and it's obviously one of those things where because you're in the audience, you're supposed to be smarter than the film. You can see that he's making fun of them, but to them, they think that they're the smart. And I like that I like that he handled it that way because, like you said, it's not like he's not playing both sides, he's not like picking, he's not expressing moral judgment on them, he's not making them to be caricatures of the KKK or anything. But at the same time, he's been unequivocal about what he's saying about these people, which is that he doesn't agree, you know, he obviously doesn't agree with his rhetoric, it's very handy what is going on. Yes, and so I like that. I was very impressed because I'm not as familiar with his film or quick and he's in a couple others, um, and he did not have anything like this. So I'm like, oh.
Ayisha:This is his first, this is his political film. Like uh he he hasn't touched anything close to Cinna other. Well, you know what is common in all of his films though? You know what is common of the things I realize in the cinema? Sex. PTA probably is dogging because I'm sorry, because every single time he makes a movie, it's there's something to do. I mean, the first scene where Tiana Taylor Perfilia meets Lockjaw and you have the get it up scene. People in my cinema, like when I watched the second time, because the first one it's interesting watching for me. The first time I was obviously at an IMAX preview, and that's important for me to tell you because everyone was laughing. So they were like film people because they were got it, and they were laughing. Then in my next screening, it was like kind of just more like uh not IMAX, normal screening. There were less, there was less laughter. There was more kind of like what's happening? That's upset, you know. But for me, when she was doing the he was doing the get up, get up, I was like, oh my god, this guy hasn't changed his boogie nights. Like he's still this fucker, like he still does shit like this, and that's why I like him. You know, he's still so playful, but um, in terms of his political film, I think this is the most political film he has ever made, ever. I think for me, I wasn't crossing.
Ofili:I'm incredibly impressed by the timing of the show. Because I was like, this had to be made minimum a year ago, ready to go, with an editing and like whatever revisions that he wanted to make. I was like, to have this lock and loaded is crazy. At this time, especially. It's so at this time, because the fact that like things were not culturally resonant, yeah. It's not like it's so crazy. Like the amount of foresight that you have to decide that's in the film that you want to make.
Ayisha:Yeah, yeah, yeah. And again, it is going to be a lot of because of how much is wrong. Yeah, but it's a slow progression in life with these things, often before things become publicized with how bad they are, they're happening beneath the surface. PTA grew up in um San Fernando Valley in California. He's probably aware of all the immigration stuff. He would have grown up knowing it, he would have grown up being around all of that stuff too. I think the reason why this was made at this time is because. He was look apparently looking for Willa for many years. So looking for Chase Infinities uh as an actress. And he said he didn't find the right Willa, but he's um who's actually dead right now, R.I.P. Adam Somner, who was his uh assistant um essentially, such director, I mean, essentially was telling him, Well, you just have to make this movie, stop like dilly-daling and make this film right now. So he started just making the film and looking for his Willa. But um, I don't know, I mean, uh this film, as much as it is the commentary on our now contemporary, really there's so much about it about PTA and his life. Like PTA is married to, or not married, it was with Mai Rudolph, who is mixed race, and he has children that are half-black as well. And there are many instances of that in the film. Like, for example, when Bob is saying that he doesn't even know how to do her hair in the car with Benisha Del Toro, which was also a very kind of like, I felt quite like oh wow, poor guy. Mai Rudolph has said that because her mother, Mina Britton, died when she was very young, and her father is the white one. He didn't really know how to make her hair. Like the basism, she said that I think on Questlov's podcast a couple years ago, I was listening to. So essentially, you can tell that as much as it is commentary for him, it's also a deeply personal film. In a way that you have seeds of that in other films that he's done, especially Boogie Nice, because he grew up around all the pornhouses. But um, you know, with this one, it's not. I'm not joking, that is actually a full-on fact about him.
Steve:Oh, that's that's that that's fair. But yeah, I like I like his grasp and I like this grasp and certain concept. And I feel like there's certain roles where I'm just refusing to believe that he didn't, or certain roles that he wasn't as involved in your dialogue, right? And I'm just choking because Benicio says oh Gringo Zapata, and Zapata was like this Mexican revolutionary or whatever. And I'm like, come here. Your name is Paul, bro. What are you fucking you know about?
Ayisha:Zapata's no, so so actually, fun fact from listening to him, he said basically the setup of how they meet Benitio's character and the you know going into a room and a room and a room and a room apparently was Benitio's idea. So Benitio, so he had been thinking of writing that for a very long time. Benicho came and was like, I know what we're gonna do, we're gonna do something similar to this. And obviously, he would have tweaked it and stuff like that. But apparently with Benitio and Leo together, there was a lot of kind of improv. Like Benicho was just very, very locked into his character, and you can kind of tell that actually. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. You can tell that because it feels more textured and more real with Benichio's character. Some of the line readings for maybe a few other characters seem like they were made for impact, you know. Whereas him answering the time when Bob is like asking what's the time, what's the time? We don't know, you know what I mean? Yeah, but PTA has definitely has like of all directs, I think has a sense of humor, which I think is uh refreshing.
Steve:Yeah, but yeah, no, um and Benishu felt he was he was very refreshing for me, and he felt like he was providing the comic relief, but he was also very serious. He was on task at a point, so it's just some of the lines that he was throwing out, especially in Spanish.
Ayisha:I haven't worked this is a Hispanic Harry Tobian situation.
Ofili:Yeah, yeah, it's so hard.
Steve:Yeah, yeah, I really and I'm an immigrant, so obviously, but uh yeah, no, I appreciated that for sure. When we talk characters, we did not talk about Tiana, and I don't like that, but I gave you space to talk about Tiana, it's important.
Ayisha:Okay, you can talk about Tiana. Let it read.
Ofili:You know who else we didn't talk about? We didn't talk about Tony Goldwyn, which I felt like was his master strike.
Ayisha:I'm gonna get there. I'm gonna get there because I have a lot, I have a lot to say about the Ophelia and I text you. I'm gonna get I'm gonna get there.
Ofili:We have like 20 minutes left.
Ayisha:Yeah, we have yeah, what are you doing? Wait, no, but can I can we can we just hear about Tiana, please, Steve?
Ofili:Okay, Steve goes Tiana since since minute one.
Steve:I'm not teasing anything, man. Okay, let me just start. For one, obviously, yeah, I'm very I like her. I'll take the fact, you know what I mean? Aphilly is probably not sure, yes, very much. Very, very I don't like that film. Um why did you say it like that? Obviously, I I like her, like I like her a lot. Yeah, she's very attractive to me. If that's what you want me to say, but Aphily's not going to like this. But two years ago, I was on the train that she should have gone nominated for uh a thousand and one thousand and one because she was so good in it, like she was she embodied that character, and it's uh it's really about are you still embodied?
Ofili:My nigga, you just you just want you just want to talk about the body. That's it, that's all you care about. You don't care about no embody, you just care about the body.
Steve:So let's relax. I'm not going to talk about that film, but if you haven't seen it, strong TCA recommend go see fans. But going go into this now. It's like initially I got Catwoman vibes from it, and I'm going to explain what I mean by that. But Catwoman is interesting. Catwoman, the Catwoman character is one that like people that portray Catwoman really well understand that you have to combine the sensuality with the sexuality. Like, yeah, you're a very sexy looking person, but you have to grow about it in a very sensual way. But coming to this role, like bringing into this role, she also was a powerful woman, you know, using weapons, leading revolutions, standing up to fascism, if you will. But she was able to combine that with her in a very sensual, in a very sexual way, sometimes aggressive, very agro-sexual, but also very like soft way, you know what I mean, with the power that she had. And I was watching her, and I'm like, she would make a really, really good cat woman. That's what came to mind. And obviously, she also turned she also made me fair enough, and she made me shift to my seat a little bit. I may have I feel like I may have varked once or twice at the screen, you feel me? But yes, I was very moved by her.
Ofili:Yeah, I don't want to be Steve is not gonna like what I'm gonna say. But what are you gonna say, Ophelia? I feel like at the core of Steve's critique a lot of times, it is either did this make me horny or are they going to be good? Or will they be good in a Marvel movie? Like it's always horny or superhero stuff, and right now he just blended it together. I love that.
Ayisha:Yeah, Steve is a good thing. He just thinks he stays truth to himself.
Steve:This is amazing. This is amazing. He just deprogrammed it. I'm actually not going to respond to that. I'm not going to give that the light of the because you were so wrong, but that's calm.
Ayisha:But can we actually talk about how she uses her sexuality in this film? Because I was when I first watched it, I felt a bit like I just want to talk about jungle pussy as well. But um when he was like, So no more pussy. No more pussy. Um but I felt a bit not uncomfortable, but kind of like what they're gonna do with her, you know. When they first started and the way she was speaking and doing things, I was like, oh god, what are they gonna do with her? Am I gonna be disappointed? Like I like, and I I wasn't disappointed at all. I think it's interesting how she uses her sexuality and how she kind of is basically her using all the facets she has to revolutionize the world, like even her own body, you know.
Steve:But I do think I I do think a lot of the revolutionary well, I don't know what time era this is set, but like I'm thinking back to the Black Panthers in Chicago and all of that. They were very sexual people. I don't know what it is about leading a revolution that makes you overly maybe it's adrenaline, maybe it's the passion.
Ayisha:I think it's the passion. You have a lot of passion and it has to go somewhere.
Ofili:Yeah, I they had a lot of um I also think a lot of times the issue is a lot of these niggas are like 20, 21, super young as well. So it's a lot of like teenagers, younger.
Steve:Yeah, yeah. And so it comes with the territory. I'm not discounting what you're saying. It is interesting. I thought about that once or twice. Like this is just happening. What is he trying to say here? But at the same time, I I also asked myself, would I be feeling this way if it was a man? I didn't think I would, so that's why I'm like, okay, I'm not going to hold this against her character.
Ayisha:I think it's also interesting what you're talking about in terms of the Black Panthers and bringing back to that because I think I also checked myself by saying to myself, no, she's a fully realized character. Sometimes your collective responsibility is clashing with your personal responsibility as well, you know, in terms of like what your desires are and what uh you want to achieve. Like sometimes you find that guy. I mean, sometimes you know she could find like I think there was a part of her that found the whole lockdown situation, if not him, a bit attractive in some. Oh, okay.
Ofili:I feel like she she loved it.
Ayisha:Interesting. She absolutely loved it. Yeah, I think she loved it. But I think the I think let's I think I would like to know what you think about that she loved though.
Steve:I thought it was just a power play. I didn't think she loved it necessarily. But if you guys both say that, you're probably right.
Ayisha:But I think No, I think she loved it as a power play. And when I watched it again, I started to think about it and thought, is it just a power play to her? I was confirmed that it was really, but Philly do you say differently?
Ofili:No, I think it was definitely the power play, the power dynamic of being able to put him down and force him to do whatever she wanted. Yeah. Where I do feel that people are getting it wrong is that a lot of people were getting it or seeing it as something she did in service of the revolution, which I feel personally, like if Tiana was there to defend herself, she would say she did it in service of the revolution. If, like, if uh what's her name? Forgotten what her real name is in the in the film. That character. Yeah, Prophilia. If she was to like defend herself to the people, we could never see her again.
Ayisha:But I think I think the it depends. It depends.
Steve:What are you about to say? Because I'm agreeing, but I don't even know that I'm agreeing. What are you about to say?
Ayisha:Uh I I think she went there in terms of revolution, but she enjoyed it a bit too much.
Steve:We can't knock a woman for being a sexual person for enjoying.
Ayisha:I think I think if you're going, if you're going for work and you're there's different there's a different thing. I think she is somewhat. I think even before she enjoys the power, she enjoys the passion, she enjoys getting revved up like that.
Steve:I think you know yeah, no, Offin, I don't think I don't think it's fair to to knock it back to the case.
Ofili:I think even before she um I think the motive switches, even before she leaves the stall. No, I disagree. I think even before she did this. Like as soon as she gets that close the first time, I think she's testing the limits. And when she goes down, she completely like she knows that she can play around. Yeah, and she knows that she can play around when she's in that situation in the stall or with him behind her.
Ayisha:She's she's fearful.
Ofili:It's yeah, it's fear. Then it it does.
Ayisha:But she realizes she's completely in control.
Ofili:Exactly. Yes, and then she switches.
Ayisha:I have a further point for you because on my second watch I realized something. I agree with you in terms of uh further in control, and then she plays with her and she goes, Okay, I can fuck around with this guy because I'm in control. Once she walks out, there's there is a distress on her face.
Steve:There is. That's why that's why I said the motive didn't change.
Ayisha:I think that is her realizing, oh, I have to go through with this, otherwise, we're fucked.
Steve:Exactly.
Ayisha:The motive was entirely in service of the revolution. In between her going through with it, and you know, the time between she realized she has to go through it and maybe she psyches herself up and realizes, okay, I can actually have fun with this. And I think she does.
Ofili:I have a question. Do you think oh, this is crazy? Do you think that was a one-time occurrence or an ongoing relationship? It was ongoing. They showed us multiple times. I feel like they showed us like maybe two. It looked like twice in the same night. Yeah, it was two. Sorry, it was two. Okay, great. So, ongoing relationship definitely still.
Ayisha:I don't think it was ongoing.
Ofili:Really? You think it was just one night?
Ayisha:Yeah, I think it was. They saw each other, maybe. I don't know. I don't know if I thing is, I don't know. I don't know, but I don't know. Yeah, I don't know.
Ofili:I don't know, but I personally feel like it was an ongoing relationship.
Ayisha:My how to say believe it's ongoing.
Ofili:Oh my god. I think the way Lockjaw fell. I don't want to believe that that he gained that pleasure one time and all of a sudden her locked. That's one.
Ayisha:I think two No, but I think that's the thing, though. I think that's things.
Ofili:He was spying on her with binoculars and Jackie Dragon before he even did the thing because she aroused him in the way that she did, and I understand that he loves Black Pussy. That's the thing, that's a very key thing of the film. But I think, in addition to that, it's just very important to note that what we don't censor in this pod, so Steve is PTA can say that multiple times, I can say it. But vaccinated.
Ayisha:You know, this is so funny. This is so funny because when PTA was making Magnolia, he was dating Fiona Apple, right? Then after Magnolia, he stops dating Fiona Apple, then he starts dating my rudolph, and he makes Punch True Club. And the whole kind of like thing in the uh in the fandom is that my rudolph helped him find his purpose, and punched your club is about him being crazy and finding love. Now he makes this film talking about how much you love uh um black, you know what, and it's like it's like my roof you know what really changed his life. You don't go back. What are you?
Ofili:What are you talking about? Black, black what? Didn't hear you.
Ayisha:I said basically, you said that he this film is talking about liking black pussy, basically. Okay, okay. Um I'm saying that clearly he's trying to do it. No, we go with body words. Oh, okay.
Ofili:Oh, I was engaged. Gotcha. Okay, good. But I think one, so I don't think so. Now this is the biggest thing that I firstly, I I don't think you I think it would be incredibly convenient for us to get pregnant on the one time that she's oh my god, crazy coincidence, you know, your baby was born out of whatever. Secondly, I think what is hilarious or why don't you actually know what?
Ayisha:Now that you're speaking, I do think it was multiple times.
Ofili:Yeah, it was multiple times. It had to be. It has to be multiple times. And the thing is that I said the I can give you for the first time, honestly, I can't even give you for the first time because the first time they have shown that they are not literally averse to really dangerous tasks. If she communicated with anyone, they could have gotten him. They didn't even need to kill him, they could have gotten him. I think the fact that that was hidden so long, nobody even to the fact like yeah, nobody knew. Nobody fucking knew. I think till the end of the film, nobody knows that the the reason why Loxo is coming after them. Nobody knows.
Steve:What do you mean? Regina did not hint at that.
Ofili:Regina didn't.
Ayisha:No, Regina doesn't know. Last even uh Jungle Pussy knew.
Ofili:Jungle Pussy is the one that knew, and that's how Jungle Pussy, yes, yes, yes. Yeah, so the Christmas adventure is new because of Jungle Pussy. Yes. Okay, okay. So now, and then this is where it gets really dicey, where I know very clearly it's not in service of the revolution. Why would you go through all of that to then snitch on the revolution?
Ayisha:That's what I'm saying in terms of that's uh sorry, go ahead.
Steve:So the way you had said, I don't remember what exactly you said, but I'm like, yes, we might not agree with some of these decisions and think that you're in favor of the revolution, but I'm not like that's in line with the character that he's introduced, and absolutely it's in line with the character doing things selfishly.
Ayisha:That's what I said at the beginning. That's what I said at the beginning. For her, they've hip, there's plenty of there's a similarity between her and Bob. They're both in the revolution for the wrong reasons.
Steve:Fair enough.
Ayisha:Really, the one person that is in the revolution for the right reason is Regina Hall's character. She is a fighter, and that's what the head of the nunnery says to her. Says to her, like, you have been fighting, you have really been fighting. She has been fighting. Bob is there because he needs some purpose in his life. You know, guess what? He needs some purpose in life. And so, therefore, he's there because you know, he's just like, okay, I might as well do this, right? And she is there because she enjoys the power, and she enjoys.
Ofili:I definitely agree. I definitely agree. I think she enjoys the power.
Ayisha:So the revolution is just a is a it's it's just a uh it's a proxy, it's a proxy for her to be. That's what I'm saying.
Steve:No, I think I think she also doesn't know anything else. I think she was born into this family, born into this role that's right of the revolutionaries that you're forced to continue.
Ofili:Yeah.
Steve:So this is all she's known. When she does things that are considered selfish, she's doing her own thing or being her own person. But I think almost everything she does, the intent is in service of the revolution. The snitching part, right? Yes, obviously, that's a disservice.
Ayisha:I see your point, and I think it links back to the end when Bob gives um uh villa the letter. You know, and Bob basically prevents the generational cycle from happening of Willa kind of thing, like she has to be a revolutionary before she even knows what that is. I agree with you in Tubbs, that's all she knows. And I think when you look at her character from that way, you look at this film as like a generational trauma and like sort of like how that impacts on people, but also trauma that she gained from society that is not changing, right? And it's just regressing, and you are the inferior in that society, so you are born fighting because your parents are fighting before you. And I think you can see that anger within her. That's why she's having fun with the power player, and I think that's why she shoots that guy because she's suffering from post-natal depression, and also thinking, oh my god, there's when I go home, I'm unhappy. When I go outside, I have to fight. I'm always having to fight. Yeah, and in a way, she's weaker than the rest of the characters because she can't just contain that like Benisha Dottori's character can and just keep fighting, instead, she has to express that in some way.
Ofili:Fair enough. I agree. I actually don't know fair enough. We will flesh this out another time. So I want to do final ratings instead of one to ten. Where does this land for birth of you?
Steve:I think I was trying to be stubborn about it and just off I'm going to not like it just so I can piss them off. But there's something to be said, and we didn't even talk about this. VistaVision, like the resurgence of VistaVision. Like the film looked so beautiful.
Ofili:And I still want to talk about the final, the final act. I want to talk about that a little. I want to keep that for the people because that was okay. That was beautiful for me. That was something I treasured. That's bro. Yeah, bro. That scene was something I treasured.
Steve:You watch a filmmaker, you're like, oh you know, you're like, bro, you're you're chefing up, you're chefing up crazy, right? Wild Florida, you know, everything. And I'm I'm bringing this up now because I don't want us to end to just not talk about that. But yeah, like the colors, and I say this all the time. I watch another film more recently, it was Beetle Juice and Blender 2004 or whatever, and Jaws. Jaws, that was the other one with Banky. And you can see the colors, they're so distinct, and the hue is so like the gradient is done so well that you can see every single color, in like as if it was, you know what I mean, real, compared to the recent years where you can't make out more than three hues on the frame. And so the resurgence of that was just very beautiful, man. Like, oh my god, I can see the color of his shirt, I can see the color of the sky, I can see everything. It's amazing, it's so amazing. It sounds so simple, but it's so amazing. And coupled with the fact that he's telling a story in a very once upon a time, this happened, and then this happened, and then this is how we finally resolved. Very simple, very conclude, like simple narrative. I tell you, it's very intense. It's very simple, but he's shooting it in a way that it's almost like Jesus Christ himself was holding a camera. You know what I mean? So, as I I was prepared to hate, I got my ticket last minute. I wasn't gonna see, I was trying to piss people off, but I'm going with a 10. I'm going with a 10, not because it's inventive, or I don't agree with Earlich that it's the film of the century or whatever. Like, I don't agree with some of the some of these things.
Ayisha:That's why he's just fighting back because he's a hater and they know people are coming for him. He has to love this movie too much. Yeah, I think that's a good one.
Steve:That's why when you guys were glazing, when you guys are glazing PTA, I didn't say anything. I was just quiet through that whole session because I really don't think I've seen something that I have never seen before. But at the same time, I think if you tell the story really, really well and you shoot it beautifully, that's at the I did tell sense that's what cinema should be. So I'm a 10.
Ofili:Fair enough. Aisha, what's yours?
Ayisha:I'm a 10. I was always going to be a 10. It's biased to even, it's even useless to even ask me what I think. I think people asked me what I think after film, and I was like, I'm sorry, I'm too biased to uh give you a uh an accurate reading of this film. But I'm a 10, I'm a 10, and maybe even a 12 if I can go, because I just think I didn't expect the portrayal, me as a black woman watching that film of like what the experience is. Oh, where we've gonna be like living in the world. And I don't think he I don't think it's a film about black women living in the world, but I just think there are things that we're touched on. Like, I mean Tony Goldwyn being there, him being fit the meta and truly inside. I'm sorry, like there's just there's so many kind of like little comments, and like you know, I felt myself for like uh it's crazy to kind of feel like personal uh you know correlations with PTA.
Ofili:So funny, you know, for like marketing-wise, is that if they got Tony Goldwyn in a room with Tiana Taylor, like seen for that, and just leaked that, yeah, oh my god, the girls would be in that movie would have been packed. The scandal girls would have loved it, not knowing what that was going on there. So meta to have him doing that role.
Ayisha:I think in my cinema when I saw that, when I saw my cinema, when I my cinema when I saw that, I just shook my head and I said, There's no way this bounce could be. I'm a 10.
Ofili:To finish up, I'm also a 10. I actually think I don't know if you guys know, but I'm a staunch hater of go this is 70mm, IMAX, VistaVision, go watch it in that format to get the true experience. I feel like your film should be great in every form. I agree. Um I agree because one there's only like five of those fucking cinemas that show the format in the fucking world. So please do better. I think if we finish up with fast forwarding this five years, I feel like this is going to be a classic.
Ayisha:It's gonna be a classic for sure, and I think we look back on him as a director and we'll see things for sure. But I think this is definitely going to be a classic. It is so culture resonant, and it's so well shot, and also the experience of it is not hard work. Like something like The Brutalist, right, is a very beautiful film, but it's a hard work to watch.
Ofili:It's a fucking tour.
Ayisha:This is not hard work to watch at all, but it is it is dealing with very, very difficult concepts and breaking them down. And I think the signal, kind of like the true tale of mastery, is when you can take a really, really complex topic and break it down into mindful pieces of it.
Ofili:So fucking entertaining, man. So entertaining. Because I think it's it's really entertaining because at its core it's a family movie.
Ayisha:It is a family movie, it is a family movie, and I think it's so interesting because I didn't want directors to have kids because I always thought kids kind of ruined them producing work. But you know what I mean? Like, this is fantastic. I mean, if you can have kids and do this, that's all right. You know what I mean?
Ofili:Stoner dad. We need more stoner dad.
Ayisha:Why not? You know what I mean?
Ofili:Dave, what's your what's your what's the takeaway?
Steve:I do not agree with so many things that have been said on this episode. I just want to put that out there. We started off by saying that talent skips a generation, and now we're ending it by saying that we don't want directors to have kids. I don't know why, why did the wrong takeaway? You just said you literally, okay, you were like, Oh, some you said that. I'm not tripping. Did I get it wrong?
Ayisha:Some directors, like, I said I didn't love for most directors to have children because it changes how they make films. But in this case, if you can have children and do this, then sure, have as many kids as you want.
Steve:Okay, we love the family, we love the nuclear family.
Ayisha:PT has four kids and he's still doing this shit. I mean, come on, he still has time to direct time videos, so he's fine.
Steve:I'm like, oh brother, please. Like, what is the polar grade doing in Arkansas? But it worked, it it was too. She fit in the movie. Maybe that's why they didn't give her enough lines. I don't think she fit. I fully thought she was out of place, but it's fine. Um that is that. But yeah, no, no, no. The final takeaway, uh I'm glad that we're a 10. Fun fact, listeners, this is the first unanimous 10 on the podcast. Yeah, I think so. I think it's the first unanimous 10. Oh, I think it's the server. I think it's a deserving, I think it's a deserving one. It really is that simple and it's that well executed. Yeah.
Ayisha:You know, the more I kind of do this stuff and live in the world of film, and I'm close up with it, I go like, it's so difficult to make a film. And it is so difficult to make a film this good. Like, I just in the second time I was watching it, I was just like, every shot is beautiful. How does he do this stuff? But he's not boastful as he usually is. Usually he's a bit more boastful because he's a study of the he's great, so he's very boastful sometimes. But this one, he's just he's not that boastful, it's just like simply done, but just so well done, executed anyway.
Ofili:Yeah, yeah. All right, thank you so much, guys. That is our deep dive into one battle after another, and thank you for bringing such different perspectives to this discussion. Yeah. For the audience, our listeners, we love you. What did you think about the film? Should let us know. Do you think DiCaprio's performance lived up to expectation? Are you planning to see it's an IMAX? Or if there's VistaVision around you, please go see that. Let us know in the comments or reach out via social media. Tell your friends to listen to the pod, and you listen to the pod multiple times. We love it. Alright, guys. This has been a great episode of the Cinephiles Isle. Thank you.
Ayisha:Bye, everybody. See ya.
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